bigpun418

I'm in the market of buying a Honda Civic Hatchback. I had a '98 Prelude S, sold it for a Jeep Wrangler TJ, but I still have a '00 GSXR 600 and '01 GSXR 750. At first I just want a vehicle that is very dependable and save mad $$$ on gas since the six cylinder is killin' my pockets. Next Spring I'll probably get the itch to hook it up so we shall see. Please add any suggestions of minor bolt-ons and where to buy from either online or in the Northern VA area. Any comments or advice is welcome. If you can send me threads or links of a EG or EK for sale, that would help me out as well.


Modified by bigpun418 at 7:15 PM 10/8/2003


Modified by bigpun418 at 7:16 PM 10/8/2003

fluffy

i dig the ek hatch's. eg ain't too bad either, but if i had a choice, i'd get an ek

trooper0641

i personally love the 92-95 civic vx hatches...they are the best. Light as the cx and with vtec already wired up...save a **** load of gas and has a lot of potential in the future for a swap. (easier too)

Navid OG

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by trooper0641 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i personally love the 92-95 civic vx hatches...they are the best. Light as the cx and with vtec already wired up...save a **** load of gas and has a lot of potential in the future for a swap. (easier too) </TD></TR></TABLE>

i agree

cre18

96-00 hatch

hondahybrids

5th gen (92-95)
But i am biased....as far as looks i think they def lok the best.

dampachi

EG's have a meaner look to them than the EK... the EK looks too cute IMO

oxSLEEPERxo

eg

Jmunk

I like the Eg. They have a ton of aftermarket support.

XxSOHCDriVerxX

eg

ThisLittleSleepeR

I my eg!

KOALA YUMMIES

89-91 EF

FcUK It.

eg

ScottFern

92-95 EG Si !!!!!!!

98% the options of a GSR, and lighter !!!! although its almost the same weight as the EX coupe.....In hind sight, I wish I would of bought the Si over the CX

hatchnvtec

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=594775

This will definately make you get an ek.

LowTEC SaiMike

iTrader: (7)

EJ6

ProjektHB

Eg 5thgen ownz

KOALA YUMMIES

EGs are gay and there are way to many, get an EF or an EK.

JamesQ

EK with ctr lip kit looks best imo

projectEK9

i like my ek.......
throw on a ctr front n back lip and the heads will be turning...

Ricey McRicerton

I &lt;3 my EJ6!!

civickidd99

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by trooper0641 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i personally love the 92-95 civic vx hatches...they are the best. Light as the cx and with vtec already wired up...save a **** load of gas and has a lot of potential in the future for a swap. (easier too) </TD></TR></TABLE>

the man has a point. vtec is good, unless it's used for evil, but ...nevermind my rambling

trooper0641

yes thanks guys ^_^

B18C5-EH2

You might want to recheck your "facts" buddy.

I own a 1990 STD hatch (equal to the CX) and it weighs MORE than a stock 1992 CX hatchback.

If you want the lighter-than-EG Civics you'll have to get a 1988 hatchback or an early 1989 where the seatbelts are in the car, not the doors.

The later 1989-1991 hatches are HEAVY.

Plus those older cars require much more work to get them quick.

Mount kits, custom shift linkage, wiring nightmares, etc - they are not the easiest cars to deal with from a swap standpoint. Ever try to go from the two-injector style 1988-1991 STD/DX to 4 injectors for a swap? Sucks *****.

My advice?

Get a 1992-1995 Civic DX hatchback.

Why?

They are light at 2178lbs. stock and have decent power and a decent tranny. they have 102hp so they're not unbearable to drive stock like the CX and VX models.

The CX and VX are lighter, true, but unless you're swapping right away they suck ***. The DX can be as light with little effort, and they are about the same asking price too.

The problem with the CX and Vx are that while they are light, they are near dangerous levels in terms of power or lack thereof. The Cx has 70hp and the worst tranny ever, and the VX has only 92hp and the same horribly tall tranny. Both make for great gas mileage, but try merging onto the interstate in rush hour and you're bound to get run into the wall because they are so damn slow.

The VX is a bit nicer because it has a tachometer, but really an Si/EX cluster can be added to a CX and DX very easily - plug and play.

If you want some more luxury, then get a 1992-1995 Si hatchback. They weigh about 2326lbs. in stock form, but they also have a moonroof, cruise control, 4-wheel disc brakes, 125hp VTEC SOHC engine, best SOHC tranny, power steering, and most have A/C although it was not standard from the factory on any 1992-1995 Civic hatchback.

I sold my old 1992 Si hatchback because after swapping I was still slower than my pals with CX and DX hatches with the same or less power than I had. Weight kills when it comes to hatches and swaps.

If you want all the weight comparisons for the 1992 hatches broken down by trim level, click this:

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=150315

Also for those of you debating on gettting an "EG" or an "EK" I offer this:

*Disclaimer***
I usually refrain from calling all 1992-1995 hatches EG, but for this thread I'm going to and FYI when I say EG I mean the 1992-1995 hatch. I also don't usually call all 1996-2000 hatches EK, but again for this thread I am because I don't feel like calling it EJ whatever.

***End of disclaimer***

Okay I figured I would go ahead and chime in with my thoughts on the whole EG vs. EK thing.

First of all I'm typing this up on notepad at work without access to H-T right now, so forgive me if I repeat something that has already been said in the debate. I'm pulling this from my head mostly since I cannot yet verify specs and whatnot, so if I'm off a bit I'll come back and fix anything I might have missed.

I also want to say that I like both the EG and EK hatches and in no way does anything I say in this post mean that I don't like the EK, but I like the EG better and here's why:

1. Cost. Initial cost of an EG is cheaper than an EK. I personally know of 10 or more locals here in GA that have purchased good bodied, running 1992-1993 hatches for $2,000 or less - I got mine for $300.00 after selling out the B16A that it had in it along with the HalTech stand-alone ECU in it too. Barring miraculous deals though, the EG will be cheaper than the average EK. The older the car is the cheaper the insurance is too.

For the price of an EK I can get an EG and swap in a decent motor like a SOHC VTEC, LS swap, or even a second-gen 170hp B16A for $2250.00 plus $240.00 for shipping and customs from http://www.hmotorsonline.com

Makes sense?

2. Weight. The EG hatches are lighter. This is a fact that you cannot dispute. I am very weight conscious, and I like knowing that my car with full interior will weigh the same as a gutted EK hatch - gutted EGs will always weigh less than gutted EKs. The amount that you let weight influence your buying decision is probably different from myself and others though. Remember though, lighter = quicker and better braking with less fade if both cars are modded equally.

3. Anything and everything from an Integra pretty much bolts into the EG - not so with the EK. In an EG the entire suspension and brakes can bolt directly up to an EG from an Integra. This gives the EG owner 1994-2001 to look for sus and brake stuff. The EK needs 99-00 Civic Si rear control arms if you want to run a rear swaybar too. You also cannot run ITR rear LCAs on the 96-00 Civics. Integra seats bolt right into then EG, but not in the EK, right? A 5-lug conversion on an EG bolts right up from the ITR, but not so for the EK because of the rear longer LCAs, right? Bolt-on stuff makes the EG less headache-proned.

4. While we're talking Integra stuff, let's talk swaps. Swaps in the EG are simply easier. You can bolt any hydro-trannied B-Series into an EG and pretty much keep any USDM engine harness too - OBD1 or OBD2 harnesses will plug right up in the EG. Not so with the EK since they all have the long-*** engine harness that goes through the firewall. EK needs either to use the stock engine harness and add plugs and wires, or convert it all to EX-specs. The EG will use either the Integra mounts (timing cover side mount and front and rear Integra brackets are a must) and the rest can be stock Civic mounts. You will have to mix and match mounts for the EK. Again if you don't mind the extra effort, then go ahead.

If you're lucky enough to get a 1992 Civic or any 1993-1995 VX, Si, or EX then the wiring for a swap is super easy for any USDM motor and JDM motors aren't that hard either. My USDM B18C5 swap PLUGGED in and I did not have to wire one single wire because I run a re-chipped kenji P28 ECU.

5. EG is OBD1 while the EK is OBD2. Not a big deal? Well depending on where you live yes it can be a big deal. "But I can just buy a convertor harhess and an OBD1 ECU in my EK, right?" Well not in certain parts of the country where emissions tests require a connection with an OBD2 scanner and it needs to communicate with an OBD2 ECU.

OBD2 limits the range of motors you can use. How are you going to smog a JDM motor? Damn you'll miss all those great deals on 1994-1995 motors and 1996-under JDM motors too! See what I mean? An EG allows you to run any OBD1 or OBD2 motor with either the OBD1 or OBD2 ECU if you like. Since the EG is OBD1 though, why bother? Can you say $1850.00 JDM SiR/SiRII second-gen 170hp B16A swap directly into a 1992-1995 hatch? Hell the price difference between the EG and EK is probably more than that!

OBD1 is more tuner friendly. Want to argue with that? Go argue with Hondata, Spoon, Mugen, Jun, etc. who all use the OBD1 P28 ECU to base their ECU stuff off of. Also to go OBD1 in an EK will cost a pretty hefty amount of loot. The jumper harness will be roughly $250.00 or so and a re-chipped P28 is about $300.00, right?

6. Lowering an EG is less hassles. I'm crazy, right? No actually with an EG you can lower it and choose a few cheaper front end camber correction kits. EKs require the purchase of all-new upper A-arms with camber adjusters in them. EGs can use the cheaper and just as effective upper "knuckle" kits that cost 1/2 as much. Plus the EK comes from the factory with almost full negative rear camber already - meaning after you lower it and you try to correct the rear camber you will need much more correction, and you're more likely to need to roll the fenders because EKs are more proned to scrubbing than an EG with the same exact wheel/tire combo.

How do I know? Because I've done plenty of lowered EG and EK alignments with the famous Rota/205-50-15 Falken Azenis combo, and the EKs are always the ones that scrub more which requires raising the car up or making it have more negative camber than Honda allows, which is -2.0 for the EK in the rear and -1.3 for the EG. This is from experience, not hearsay.

7. If you like a factory moonroof, rear disks, cruise control, and a 125hp SOHC VTEC motor then the 1992-1995 Si is your choice. EK never had anything better than a DX to offer. This doesn't mean much to most people though - myself included.

8. Black interior standard on many EG hatches. This is not so with the EK. Hope you like light grey only, because that's all you'll get. I personally love the hell out of the EG black interior. You like light grey or even bluie? The EG offers that too.

9. Stock seats in the EK sit you up too high and have absolutely no lateral support. For those who cannot buy seats, the EG has much better stock seats IMO in terms of hold and comfort. The EK style seats feel like Accord seats. While the EG seats might be uglier with the unibar headrest, they do support/hold better in the turns.

10. All USDM EKs had dual airbags. So what? Well if you remove the airbags for weight reduction then you'll have a gaping hole in the passenger side of the dashboard. 1992-1993 EGs had one airbag, making it as easy as locating a 1992-1993 dash to fill the hole where your airbag would have been. Airbag delete trays are available for the EK, but they are hard to find.

Let's talk body real quick, shall we? Most of this will be factual, but some of it will have my own personal opinion injected too.

1. Body parts and pricing. I called the local Honda dealer and asked them about list pricing on a bunch of common body parts for the 1992-1995 hatch, the 1996-1998 hatch, and the 1999-2000 hatch for comparison.

My list included:

Hood
Fenders
Bumper Covers front and rear
Headlights
Corner lenses for the 1992-1995 for fair comparison vs. the 1996-2000 integrated assy.

The 1992-1995 and 1996-1998 were only $2.15 apart, but the 1999-2000 was about $115.00 more than the 1992-1995 hatch stuff. Oh yeah and add in the costs of the 1996-2000 grille crap and it's easily over $200.00 to fix an EK type front end over an EG.

Once I get the comprehensive list faxed over I'll list the various parts and prices - these are normal list prices straight from Honda. I'm interested to see which parts costed more for each model and which ones were the cheapest.

2. The EG had no distinct exterior changes from 1992-1995 like the EK had. This comes in handy when looking for used parts because it gives you a total of 4 years to look through as opposed to just 3 for the 1996-1998 hatch or worse, just 2 years for the 1999-2000 hatch. The very distinct front end splits from 1998-1999 on the hatch may be a good or bad thing depending on who you ask. there are some who don't like the 1996-1998 front end as evidenced by the common 1996-1998 front end conversions to 1999-2000 specs, while some like the 1996-1998 style because they can use the JDM wrap-around bumpers. I personally like the 99-00 style better, but I must admit that the wrap-around bumpers look great with the SiR-type front lip in matching black.

3. The EG was available without side moldings in the CX and VX models which some may love, while all EKs had side moldings which some may not like.

4. The EG had a black strip that ran along the entire bottom of the car including the front bumper, side skirts, and rear bumper. Now I know this sounds picky, but I really dig that a lot. I'm all about flow, so the EG is better in this department IMO. Why? Because the EK doesn't have the black strip on the front or rear bumper covers, yet the side skirt is unpainted black plastic. Unless you paint the side skirts it looks weird IMO, but I'd still like a black trim all the way around the bottom like the EG has if you're running unpainted black side moldings. The 1996-1998 hatches with the SiR-style black front lip look killer, but then you get to the rear bumper cover and it doesn't flow well with the rest of the bottom of the car that's unpainted black plastic. 1999-2000 hatches pretty much limit you to buying a pre-painted Si front lip that you either have repainted, but then it doesn't match the black side skirts. In other words in order to make the bottom of the EK flow better, you'll be painting some stuff.

5. The 1992-1995 hatch has separate headlight and corner lens assemblies. The 1996-up has an integrated headlight and corner assembly. I will not even touch on the looks aspect, but I will say that it's easier to deal with rock chips in a 1992-1995 hatch when all you might have to do is replace a corner lens if a rock hits it. Not so for the 1996-2000 hatch. If you catch a rock on the very corner of the turn signal, you're buying an entire much more expensive headlight/corner combo assembly. Not a big deal to some, but after seeing a lot of broken corner lenses on 1992-1995 hatches those $40.00 fake visions look awefully better than having to buy an expensive-*** 1996-2000 entire headlight assembly.

6. The 1992-1995 Civic does not have a front grille in between the front bumper cover and hood, but the 1996-2000 hatch does. Looks aside, in the event of an accident the 1996-2000 Civic parts will cost more because you have the grille molding, and the grille itself to replace. Now in terms of looks I like the non-grilled 1992-1995 front better because it looks more sleek to me, but that's strictly my opinion.

How much do those grille parts cost?

1996-1998 - $76.00 for the grille, molding, and emblem.
1999-2000 - $131.00 for the same stuff

Now in terms of stock colors available, the EK or EG might have the upper hand depending on who you ask.

The 1992-1995 hatch came in:

2 different light teals - Tahitian Green and Aztec Green
1 darker teal - Paradise Blue-Green
Dark Blue - Harvard Blue
Dark Grey - Phamntom Grey
White - Frost white
Red - Milano Red
Lighter Blue - Captiva Blue
Black (Si only) - Granada Black

The 1996-up EK style hatch came in:

Light Green - Midori Green
Dark Purple - Dark Amythest Pearl
Better then EG black - Flamenco Black Pearl
White - Frost white, right?
Red - Milano and Roma, right?
Silver - Vogue Silver Metallic

So IMO it's a toss-up on which generation has the upper hand in terms of colors. The EG has the bad-*** blues and a pimp dark grey, while the EK has the love it or hate it green and a bad-*** Silver. I have had both Granada black (stock 1992-1995 Si black) and then Flamenco Black (had my 1992 Si repainted that color) and IMO the Flamenco is much better - that's the EK black.

The EK had the questionable Dark Amythest Pearl while the Eg had 3 variations on teal. Some like these colors while others hate them.

Then again if a total color change is in your plans who gives a damn, right? I took my favorite O.E color from the 1996-up hatch, Vogue Silver Metallic, and repainted my 1992 CX that color.

Now if I had to list any plusses for the EK, it would probably go like this:

1. Newer so more quality hatches available with lower miles. If you have the loot and you want the newest car possible, the EK is for you. Get a super low mileage 2000 EK and don't worry about a repaint. Also there's less chance that you'll get a rusted newer EK then the older EGs.

2. The Civic Type R in Japan. Really cool JDM CTR goodies to make the EK better. O.E quality is unmatched, so those bad-*** CTR body parts like headlights, bumpers, lips, etc. are definately a plus.

3. EKs are less likely to be totalled in a not so major accident. Egs are older, cheaper, and thus less valuable to the insurance company, so in the event of a halfway serious accident you have a higher chance of getting to keep your EK. This comes in handy if you have a swap or a shitload or parts on the car that you'd like to keep from having to transfer onto another shell. I know that if my EG is totalled or worse, stolen my check will be not so great.

4. *IF* you are a JDM buff then the EK might appeal more to you. Why? Because there are more NEW JDM EK parts available than the EG. Plus the JDM EK parts really stick out above the EG parts. Like the headlights, side moldings, rear spoiler, and especially the JDM 1996-1998 wrap-around molding bumpers. The EG stuff is hard to find new, and although the used stuff is cheaper than the used EK stuff it doesn't look or perform much better than the USDM counterpart.

Example?

I wanted new headlights for my EG. I could not find brand new JDM plastic ones, so Igot USDM ones because they were new. I like the plastic ones better for weight, but I don't like the liklihood of them looking really used.


Overall when we compare mods and parts avaliability, the EG and EK are about the same. Most anything you can get in carbon fiber for an EG can be had for an EK too, and vice versa.

So there you have it. My discertation on the EG vs. EK debate. A little of my info was tainted with some opinions, but they were usually based on facts from what I've seen and experienced first-hand. In closing I'm still an EG guy for sure, but again I'm saying that I do like the EK. The EK might require more work and cost more, but to some people it's worth it.

If I had an unlimited budget I'd still build an EG based on my personal opinions in terms of styling, and of course because of weight. That's just my opinion though.

Top that.

bigpun418

What do you all think about this one? Should I buy? Does anyone know this guy cause I've been tryin' meet up with him and check it out? Anyone know if this guy personally and can vouch for the car and it's condition? Thanks all.



https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=636660

Thank you B18C5-EH2 for all that info. Right now though I'm leaning towards the 96+ civic for dependability. Remember that I'm buying the car for saving $$$ on gas and reliability. Again thanks.

Can you bump this ***** for me? HOlla


Modified by bigpun418 at 12:34 PM 10/9/2003