Cheapest 12 Sec B Series Setup in a Hatch (No Nitrous Oxide)
09-11-2003, 11:49 AM
#51
Former Moderator
Re: (hybrider)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybrider »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">mid 12's is going to be REALLY pushing it, even tom can only grab a 13.3 with a 2.0. Even with 1.8 60 ft's he's still not going to pull mid 12's
just research, get in ALL the info you can and make a descision.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well mid 12's is certainly a long ways from a 13.3 whether some people believe it or not, but here's an interesting tidbit:
I ran a 13.3 at 1100ft. above sea level. There was a correction chart posted in the Hybrid forum that made my corrected time come to a 12.6 - this is based on the old time of 13.3.
Just imagine if I could get a nice run in FLA at or slightly below sea level...that'd be sweet.
But to keep this all relative to the topic at hand, I'd say that a B18C5 swap is not going to be "cheap" to many people, but IMO it's a great swap considering the power, reliability, resale value, and ease of installation.
A boosted D series can be cheaper and certianly lay down more than the mid 170's whp that a Type R does, and undoubtedly the boosted D will out torque the mid 120's that the B18C5 lays down with normal bolt-ons, but it is nowhere near as reliable regardless of what anyone says.
just research, get in ALL the info you can and make a descision.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well mid 12's is certainly a long ways from a 13.3 whether some people believe it or not, but here's an interesting tidbit:
I ran a 13.3 at 1100ft. above sea level. There was a correction chart posted in the Hybrid forum that made my corrected time come to a 12.6 - this is based on the old time of 13.3.
Just imagine if I could get a nice run in FLA at or slightly below sea level...that'd be sweet.
But to keep this all relative to the topic at hand, I'd say that a B18C5 swap is not going to be "cheap" to many people, but IMO it's a great swap considering the power, reliability, resale value, and ease of installation.
A boosted D series can be cheaper and certianly lay down more than the mid 170's whp that a Type R does, and undoubtedly the boosted D will out torque the mid 120's that the B18C5 lays down with normal bolt-ons, but it is nowhere near as reliable regardless of what anyone says.
09-11-2003, 02:02 PM
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Re: (B18C5-EH2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Hmmm...you might want to tell the guy who had that H22A LSD swap in a stripped EH2 hatch that ran his 13.7 to my 13.3 that the B18C5 puts out "less than an H22A" then, okay?
Here we go again...</TD></TR></TABLE>
i dont know that Guy. and i dont know what mods u have. were u on slicks? was he? i dont know what was wrong with his motor or his driving so thats all circumstantial bull.
stock to stock h22 makes more hp and more tq... sorry but it does. are u desputing the fact that it does??
so your basing your information off a guy that we think u might know who ran a shitty time? i dunno
for the price of a c5 u can make an h22 hit 12s.... in a hatch
Hmmm...you might want to tell the guy who had that H22A LSD swap in a stripped EH2 hatch that ran his 13.7 to my 13.3 that the B18C5 puts out "less than an H22A" then, okay?
Here we go again...</TD></TR></TABLE>
i dont know that Guy. and i dont know what mods u have. were u on slicks? was he? i dont know what was wrong with his motor or his driving so thats all circumstantial bull.
stock to stock h22 makes more hp and more tq... sorry but it does. are u desputing the fact that it does??
so your basing your information off a guy that we think u might know who ran a shitty time? i dunno
for the price of a c5 u can make an h22 hit 12s.... in a hatch
09-11-2003, 02:31 PM
#53
Former Moderator
Re: (mugensport9)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mugensport9 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i dont know that Guy. and i dont know what mods u have. were u on slicks? was he? i dont know what was wrong with his motor or his driving so thats all circumstantial bull.
stock to stock h22 makes more hp and more tq... sorry but it does. are u desputing the fact that it does??
so your basing your information off a guy that we think u might know who ran a shitty time? i dunno
for the price of a c5 u can make an h22 hit 12s.... in a hatch</TD></TR></TABLE>
Actually I know the guy who ran the H22A hatch against mine, and the cars could not have been any more equal.
Both were on the exact same ******* slicks, same chassis, same mods, both had LSD, same strip, time, conditions, 60 footers, etc.
Show me some low 13 second H22A hatches here on Honda-Tech with no mods other than i/h/e and V-AFC tuning.
Only hatch I know on here that ran in the low 13's high 12's with an H22A was Newman, but most others are not in the 13.5 and lower range.
Stock H22A engines will out torque the B18C5, but they do not always outpower them.
You're also forgetting gearing in your feeble attempt to argue H22A vs. B18C5.
Ahh for get it - I've been there from first-hand experience, yet YOU know that our results aren't for real, right?
i dont know that Guy. and i dont know what mods u have. were u on slicks? was he? i dont know what was wrong with his motor or his driving so thats all circumstantial bull.
stock to stock h22 makes more hp and more tq... sorry but it does. are u desputing the fact that it does??
so your basing your information off a guy that we think u might know who ran a shitty time? i dunno
for the price of a c5 u can make an h22 hit 12s.... in a hatch</TD></TR></TABLE>
Actually I know the guy who ran the H22A hatch against mine, and the cars could not have been any more equal.
Both were on the exact same ******* slicks, same chassis, same mods, both had LSD, same strip, time, conditions, 60 footers, etc.
Show me some low 13 second H22A hatches here on Honda-Tech with no mods other than i/h/e and V-AFC tuning.
Only hatch I know on here that ran in the low 13's high 12's with an H22A was Newman, but most others are not in the 13.5 and lower range.
Stock H22A engines will out torque the B18C5, but they do not always outpower them.
You're also forgetting gearing in your feeble attempt to argue H22A vs. B18C5.
Ahh for get it - I've been there from first-hand experience, yet YOU know that our results aren't for real, right?
09-11-2003, 02:53 PM
#56
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Re: (Jin Yamato)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jin Yamato »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sell is and get a turbo DSM. Cheap way into the 12s and maybe even 11s.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Good idea, dip ****!!
IMO, cheapest way would be going boost. Either D-series or B18b. Do a search on junkyard turbo kits, lots of people on here are succesfully running kits that they put together themselves. If you're looking for the cheapest way to be fast, then you will end up neglecting reliability, and if you neglect reliability you will end up spending more money on repairs and new parts then just doing it right the first time. But anyway, I would say B18B with 10-12 lbs, get it tuned by a talented tuner and you're golden.
Good idea, dip ****!!
IMO, cheapest way would be going boost. Either D-series or B18b. Do a search on junkyard turbo kits, lots of people on here are succesfully running kits that they put together themselves. If you're looking for the cheapest way to be fast, then you will end up neglecting reliability, and if you neglect reliability you will end up spending more money on repairs and new parts then just doing it right the first time. But anyway, I would say B18B with 10-12 lbs, get it tuned by a talented tuner and you're golden.
09-11-2003, 03:34 PM
#57
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Re: (B18C5-EH2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">By the way genius, re-read the ******* title:
B Series
Didn't see anything about the H22A in his questioning, did you?</TD></TR></TABLE>
nope i didn't. which is why i stressed if it were up to me i would choose h22 and y.
i cant stress the point that with the amount spend for a c5 you can get an h22 and make it faster. i also noticed that u neglected to address that statement. possibly because u know thats the truth
who would want a c5 when u can have an h22 with mods that is faster then the c5 overall for the same price?
lastly i don't appreciate the swearing. i like having these little debates with you but there is no need to swear consistently. i notice that in alot of post u make trying to "bash" someone u like to swear. i just don't think its right. since Ive seen u dock points from people for swearing when u do it yourself.
i just hate injustice, probably why most of my family members are lawyers.
please just leave out the unnecessary words
B Series
Didn't see anything about the H22A in his questioning, did you?</TD></TR></TABLE>
nope i didn't. which is why i stressed if it were up to me i would choose h22 and y.
i cant stress the point that with the amount spend for a c5 you can get an h22 and make it faster. i also noticed that u neglected to address that statement. possibly because u know thats the truth
who would want a c5 when u can have an h22 with mods that is faster then the c5 overall for the same price?
lastly i don't appreciate the swearing. i like having these little debates with you but there is no need to swear consistently. i notice that in alot of post u make trying to "bash" someone u like to swear. i just don't think its right. since Ive seen u dock points from people for swearing when u do it yourself.
i just hate injustice, probably why most of my family members are lawyers.
please just leave out the unnecessary words
09-11-2003, 05:25 PM
#59
Unceasing Measure
Re: (mugensport9)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mugensport9 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">nope i didn't. which is why i stressed if it were up to me i would choose h22 and y.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Still, your commentary has nothing to do with the topic at hand, nor are your snide comments appreciated.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i cant stress the point that with the amount spend for a c5 you can get an h22 and make it faster. i also noticed that u neglected to address that statement. possibly because u know thats the truth</TD></TR></TABLE>
From http://www.Hmotorsonline.com:
Complete B18C Type-R swap: $4600 + shipping. Comes with the proper axles, LSD and all the necessary hardware to put it in and make it start on the first crank.
Complete H22A (OBD 1) swap: $2150 + shipping. Shifter not included ($80), Axles can be included, but they're $200.00 extra, mounts aren't included (that will fit in your EH-chassis civic), but can be supplied for $490.00 extra. Add an LSD tranny and you tack on another $300.00. That's about $3250.00 right there, before shipping.
The H22's gearing eats ***** as compared to the B18C's, losing you E.T. in the 1320. The torque transfer is horrible without aftermarket suspension work ($), the wheel spin is rediculous with even a stock H22's numbers, but can be remidied with slicks ($$), the H22 weighs a considerable amount more than the B18C and the rev limit and fuel delivery are pathetic with the stock ECU ($). You really need a bigger fuel pump to get all of the H22's potential, as well ($$).
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">who would want a c5 when u can have an h22 with mods that is faster then the c5 overall for the same price?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Refer to the above list and notice that prices between the two swaps are actually quite a bit closer than you think. Delving into the aftermarket will also gain favor for the B-series due to its popularity and plentiful parts as compared to the H22's.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">lastly i don't appreciate the swearing. i like having these little debates with you but there is no need to swear consistently. i notice that in alot of post u make trying to "bash" someone u like to swear. i just don't think its right. since Ive seen u dock points from people for swearing when u do it yourself.
i just hate injustice, probably why most of my family members are lawyers.
please just leave out the unnecessary words</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's just gay. Get over yourself and any self righteousness that you carry around with you and people might take you more seriously. Until then, go to the strip and watch the civics with H22's as compared to the R-swapped ones and then you may come back with an appology.
Still, your commentary has nothing to do with the topic at hand, nor are your snide comments appreciated.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i cant stress the point that with the amount spend for a c5 you can get an h22 and make it faster. i also noticed that u neglected to address that statement. possibly because u know thats the truth</TD></TR></TABLE>
From http://www.Hmotorsonline.com:
Complete B18C Type-R swap: $4600 + shipping. Comes with the proper axles, LSD and all the necessary hardware to put it in and make it start on the first crank.
Complete H22A (OBD 1) swap: $2150 + shipping. Shifter not included ($80), Axles can be included, but they're $200.00 extra, mounts aren't included (that will fit in your EH-chassis civic), but can be supplied for $490.00 extra. Add an LSD tranny and you tack on another $300.00. That's about $3250.00 right there, before shipping.
The H22's gearing eats ***** as compared to the B18C's, losing you E.T. in the 1320. The torque transfer is horrible without aftermarket suspension work ($), the wheel spin is rediculous with even a stock H22's numbers, but can be remidied with slicks ($$), the H22 weighs a considerable amount more than the B18C and the rev limit and fuel delivery are pathetic with the stock ECU ($). You really need a bigger fuel pump to get all of the H22's potential, as well ($$).
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">who would want a c5 when u can have an h22 with mods that is faster then the c5 overall for the same price?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Refer to the above list and notice that prices between the two swaps are actually quite a bit closer than you think. Delving into the aftermarket will also gain favor for the B-series due to its popularity and plentiful parts as compared to the H22's.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">lastly i don't appreciate the swearing. i like having these little debates with you but there is no need to swear consistently. i notice that in alot of post u make trying to "bash" someone u like to swear. i just don't think its right. since Ive seen u dock points from people for swearing when u do it yourself.
i just hate injustice, probably why most of my family members are lawyers.
please just leave out the unnecessary words</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's just gay. Get over yourself and any self righteousness that you carry around with you and people might take you more seriously. Until then, go to the strip and watch the civics with H22's as compared to the R-swapped ones and then you may come back with an appology.
09-11-2003, 05:48 PM
#60
Former Moderator
Re: (mugensport9)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mugensport9 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
nope i didn't. which is why i stressed if it were up to me i would choose h22 and y.
i cant stress the point that with the amount spend for a c5 you can get an h22 and make it faster. i also noticed that u neglected to address that statement. possibly because u know thats the truth</TD></TR></TABLE>
Prove it then.
Do a nice breakdown of how you can make an H22A "faster" for the given price difference between it and the B18C5.
Quit talking **** and prove it brother. I've been to the strip and ran better times than the quickest H22A in the state of Georgia.
That car has since been rebuilt with new Skunk2 Stage 2 cams, valvetrain, and has Type S pistons and it still runs poor times (for the build IMO)such as a. 8.8 in the 8th mile on street tires in a fully stripped hatch much like mine.
My full interior'd 2289lb. Si hatchback ran a 9.0 on street tires with a B18C5 with only mods being intake, exhaust, and a Kenji P28 ECU.
I am stating FACTS buddy - where are yours? All I see is empty theories backed up with nothing at all.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">who would want a c5 when u can have an h22 with mods that is faster then the c5 overall for the same price?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I would, because even the built one here in GA is still slower. I know the guys and respect them to the utmost, but they have a built H22A that still won't hit 12's without nitrous.
Again list these elusive mods that your supposed H22A set-up will be beating B18C5 engines with. At first you said "Stock for stock the H22A outpowers he Type R" but now it's "I'll take the H22A and mod it to be faster" so what's next for you buddy?
Put up or shut up - pretty simple man.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">lastly i don't appreciate the swearing. i like having these little debates with you but there is no need to swear consistently. i notice that in alot of post u make trying to "bash" someone u like to swear. i just don't think its right. since Ive seen u dock points from people for swearing when u do it yourself.
i just hate injustice, probably why most of my family members are lawyers.
please just leave out the unnecessary words</TD></TR></TABLE>
Again words don't mean a thing (a title of a song I wrote) man. PROVE where I have ever banned someone for simply swearing.
Oh that's right!
There is no such proof, because I have never once even warned someone for simply cursing. If someone signs up to simply flame Hondas, a particular member, a certain type of Honda (like the Del Sol
), and they happen to curse a lot in the process well then that still doesn't prove your point at all.
We're not 12 year olds here - if your sensitive eyes cannot read an occasional "bad" word from me, the Mr. Potty Mouth Mod" then I hate it for you.
The ball is now in your court:
Prove your theories, or just leave this topic about the 12 second <FONT SIZE="7">B SERIES</FONT> build-ups alone.
Side note:
I do respect properly built H22A set-ups and applaud you guys who pinoeer these sawps and make them more popular.
What I do not respect however, are ignorant people who have never owned either set-up in question or has never driven the "opposing" set-up and simply states things in absolutes like "H22A kicks the B18C5's *** in drag because of torque" or "H22A understeers like hell and they suck" because it's all a load of crap.
nope i didn't. which is why i stressed if it were up to me i would choose h22 and y.
i cant stress the point that with the amount spend for a c5 you can get an h22 and make it faster. i also noticed that u neglected to address that statement. possibly because u know thats the truth</TD></TR></TABLE>
Prove it then.
Do a nice breakdown of how you can make an H22A "faster" for the given price difference between it and the B18C5.
Quit talking **** and prove it brother. I've been to the strip and ran better times than the quickest H22A in the state of Georgia.
That car has since been rebuilt with new Skunk2 Stage 2 cams, valvetrain, and has Type S pistons and it still runs poor times (for the build IMO)such as a. 8.8 in the 8th mile on street tires in a fully stripped hatch much like mine.
My full interior'd 2289lb. Si hatchback ran a 9.0 on street tires with a B18C5 with only mods being intake, exhaust, and a Kenji P28 ECU.
I am stating FACTS buddy - where are yours? All I see is empty theories backed up with nothing at all.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">who would want a c5 when u can have an h22 with mods that is faster then the c5 overall for the same price?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I would, because even the built one here in GA is still slower. I know the guys and respect them to the utmost, but they have a built H22A that still won't hit 12's without nitrous.
Again list these elusive mods that your supposed H22A set-up will be beating B18C5 engines with. At first you said "Stock for stock the H22A outpowers he Type R" but now it's "I'll take the H22A and mod it to be faster" so what's next for you buddy?
Put up or shut up - pretty simple man.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">lastly i don't appreciate the swearing. i like having these little debates with you but there is no need to swear consistently. i notice that in alot of post u make trying to "bash" someone u like to swear. i just don't think its right. since Ive seen u dock points from people for swearing when u do it yourself.
i just hate injustice, probably why most of my family members are lawyers.
please just leave out the unnecessary words</TD></TR></TABLE>
Again words don't mean a thing (a title of a song I wrote) man. PROVE where I have ever banned someone for simply swearing.
Oh that's right!
There is no such proof, because I have never once even warned someone for simply cursing. If someone signs up to simply flame Hondas, a particular member, a certain type of Honda (like the Del Sol
), and they happen to curse a lot in the process well then that still doesn't prove your point at all.We're not 12 year olds here - if your sensitive eyes cannot read an occasional "bad" word from me, the Mr. Potty Mouth Mod" then I hate it for you.
The ball is now in your court:
Prove your theories, or just leave this topic about the 12 second <FONT SIZE="7">B SERIES</FONT> build-ups alone.
Side note:
I do respect properly built H22A set-ups and applaud you guys who pinoeer these sawps and make them more popular.
What I do not respect however, are ignorant people who have never owned either set-up in question or has never driven the "opposing" set-up and simply states things in absolutes like "H22A kicks the B18C5's *** in drag because of torque" or "H22A understeers like hell and they suck" because it's all a load of crap.
09-11-2003, 06:34 PM
#61
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Re: (EVIL_EKology)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EVIL_EKology »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Good idea, dip ****!!
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Main reason to stay out of the EG+ Forum.
Good idea, dip ****!!
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Main reason to stay out of the EG+ Forum.
09-11-2003, 06:36 PM
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Re: Cheapest 12 Sec B Series Setup in a Hatch (mishima_beef)
H-22 A-1 with 13-1 compression, and big cams in a gutted car will be about the cheapest route IMHO
09-11-2003, 06:39 PM
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Re: (96cxt)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 96cxt »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have ran a 12.9 on my 96 cx HB with full interior and I also have AC.
I have a d16y8 motor with a t28 turbo set-up, FMIC, 440cc injectors, but the motor is untouched (meaning stock rods and pistons and the head is also stock, no light flywheel) but I do have an ACT xtreme clutch. The biggest differance is the AEM EMS which was dyno tuned and the car put down 211 whp and 170 tq a my car at the wheels on 9 psi.
With drag radials I ran a 13.3 @ 102 with a 2.4 60ft, and recently I bought some slicks and went back to the track. I was able to pull of a 12.9 @ 107 with a 1.9 60ft on race gas and 11psi of boost. I could have bettered my 60ft but I was afraid that I would break my axles, since this is my daily driver and I live 60 miles away from the track so that was my olny transportation back home.
Oh and by the way my car weighed in at 2390 lbs with me in it (full interior and AC).
Later
Rahim</TD></TR></TABLE>
12.9 On a SOHC is hella kewl
I have a d16y8 motor with a t28 turbo set-up, FMIC, 440cc injectors, but the motor is untouched (meaning stock rods and pistons and the head is also stock, no light flywheel) but I do have an ACT xtreme clutch. The biggest differance is the AEM EMS which was dyno tuned and the car put down 211 whp and 170 tq a my car at the wheels on 9 psi.
With drag radials I ran a 13.3 @ 102 with a 2.4 60ft, and recently I bought some slicks and went back to the track. I was able to pull of a 12.9 @ 107 with a 1.9 60ft on race gas and 11psi of boost. I could have bettered my 60ft but I was afraid that I would break my axles, since this is my daily driver and I live 60 miles away from the track so that was my olny transportation back home.
Oh and by the way my car weighed in at 2390 lbs with me in it (full interior and AC).
Later
Rahim</TD></TR></TABLE>
12.9 On a SOHC is hella kewl
09-11-2003, 09:22 PM
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Re: (Archidictus)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Archidictus »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The torque transfer is horrible without aftermarket suspension work ($), the wheel spin is rediculous with even a stock H22's numbers, but can be remidied with slicks ($$), the H22 weighs a considerable amount more than the B18C and the rev limit and fuel delivery are pathetic with the stock ECU ($). You really need a bigger fuel pump to get all of the H22's potential, as well ($$).
</TD></TR></TABLE>
the money u save over the c5 will go in here. ecu tuning, suspension, new fuel system. which intails more power also.... this all goes with my point. we are not comparing stock to stock because with the price difference u have money to work with.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b18c5-eh »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I would, because even the built one here in GA is still slower. I know the guys and respect them to the utmost, but they have a built H22A that still won't hit 12's without nitrous.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
i said who would choose a c5 when u can get a h22 that would be overall faster. and your reply was that u wouldnt get one because there slower in GA.
well ive never been to GA and thats totally irelavent. i said if 1 motor is faster then the other who would pick the slower one. and u stubernly answerd that u would rather take the slower one claimin something off subject.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b18c5-eh »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> PROVE where I have ever banned someone for simply swearing.
Oh that's right!
There is no such proof, because I have never once even warned someone for simply cursing
</TD></TR></TABLE>
omg man read! did i say u banned someone? no
i said u docked points because they were swearing, which u did.
and i agreed with is because the person was being totally obserd talking about how they have been building motors forever and calling u a dumb *** when in reality they were cluless and just talking smack. then they got out of hand and u even said in your post that u were going to dock points because of there language.
now i dont remeber the name of the thread but im pretty sure from the discription that u know what im talking about and suddenly realize u docked points for swearing when thats the same thing u do.
my only point was----for the price of a c5 you can have an h22 that would ultimatly be faster then a c5.
u can even check the "h22 rumors or truth" thread and just look at some of the peoples times in there. i guess there faster then all the fastest h22s in GA.
maybe GA just gets bad h22s right?
The torque transfer is horrible without aftermarket suspension work ($), the wheel spin is rediculous with even a stock H22's numbers, but can be remidied with slicks ($$), the H22 weighs a considerable amount more than the B18C and the rev limit and fuel delivery are pathetic with the stock ECU ($). You really need a bigger fuel pump to get all of the H22's potential, as well ($$).
</TD></TR></TABLE>
the money u save over the c5 will go in here. ecu tuning, suspension, new fuel system. which intails more power also.... this all goes with my point. we are not comparing stock to stock because with the price difference u have money to work with.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b18c5-eh »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I would, because even the built one here in GA is still slower. I know the guys and respect them to the utmost, but they have a built H22A that still won't hit 12's without nitrous.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
i said who would choose a c5 when u can get a h22 that would be overall faster. and your reply was that u wouldnt get one because there slower in GA.
well ive never been to GA and thats totally irelavent. i said if 1 motor is faster then the other who would pick the slower one. and u stubernly answerd that u would rather take the slower one claimin something off subject.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b18c5-eh »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> PROVE where I have ever banned someone for simply swearing.
Oh that's right!
There is no such proof, because I have never once even warned someone for simply cursing
</TD></TR></TABLE>
omg man read! did i say u banned someone? no
i said u docked points because they were swearing, which u did.
and i agreed with is because the person was being totally obserd talking about how they have been building motors forever and calling u a dumb *** when in reality they were cluless and just talking smack. then they got out of hand and u even said in your post that u were going to dock points because of there language.
now i dont remeber the name of the thread but im pretty sure from the discription that u know what im talking about and suddenly realize u docked points for swearing when thats the same thing u do.
my only point was----for the price of a c5 you can have an h22 that would ultimatly be faster then a c5.
u can even check the "h22 rumors or truth" thread and just look at some of the peoples times in there. i guess there faster then all the fastest h22s in GA.
maybe GA just gets bad h22s right?
09-12-2003, 04:56 AM
#65
Former Moderator
Re: (mugensport9)
Originally Posted by mugensport9
the money u save over the c5 will go in here. ecu tuning, suspension, new fuel system. which intails more power also.... this all goes with my point. we are not comparing stock to stock because with the price difference u have money to work with.
Tell me what suspension and engine mods you'll be buying with only $1,200.00 to play with.
What ECU tuning will you be doing?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i said who would choose a c5 when u can get a h22 that would be overall faster. and your reply was that u wouldnt get one because there slower in GA.
well ive never been to GA and thats totally irelavent. i said if 1 motor is faster then the other who would pick the slower one. and u stubernly answerd that u would rather take the slower one claimin something off subject.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Oh, so I chose the "slower" one even though there's only a few H22a hatches running better times than mine with similiar mods? Explain your logic Einstein, because right now you're the only one that gets it.
No I never said that my only reason for not owning an H22A was because there's no fast ones in GA.
I simply used that as just one reference on why I've never been impressed with the H22A in person yet.
How about the fact that I've driven my friend's H22A 1996 coupe and it was slower than my pal's stock Integra Type R, and had the high 14 second timeslips to prove my theory? The Civic was also the same weight as the ITR too, so no excuses there.
His was even Hondata tuned...
I'm also not happy with the way the H22A Civics I've driven handled. Argue all you wan to, but extra weight up front adds understeer, which requires more thorough suspension tuning to get the same results with less weight up front.
I enjoy a more balanced car - it's my opinion.
I also don't like mount kits at all. the urethane breaks and squishes out of the mounts, the mounts them selves can break, etc.
I also do not like the idea of permanently cutting my Civic's chassis for both the shifter cables and cutting the welded-on tranny mount on my passenger side framerail for the HCP kit. I also don't like having to tap new holes in my chassis for the topside tranny mount either.
I also don't like the H22A's gearing at all. The 1-4 gears are spaced far apart, while the 5th gear is short as hell meaning that the most important gears (1-4) are far apart, but the 5th gear cruising is no better than the B16A/Type R trannies. Argue that the "gears are made far apart because of the H22A's torque and powerband" but that's a crock of doo-doo (i didn't curse) because I drive my father in-law's Prelude VTEC a lot and it sucks that the rpm fall so far when upshifting.
Need I go on? I can if you feel like pressing the issue.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">omg man read! did i say u banned someone? no
i said u docked points because they were swearing, which u did.
and i agreed with is because the person was being totally obserd talking about how they have been building motors forever and calling u a dumb *** when in reality they were cluless and just talking smack. then they got out of hand and u even said in your post that u were going to dock points because of there language.
now i dont remeber the name of the thread but im pretty sure from the discription that u know what im talking about and suddenly realize u docked points for swearing when thats the same thing u do.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I banned that guy because for an entire week he duid nothing but flame people constantly, and the icing on the cake was him totally cursing me out. I say "read the ******* title" and you get your pantied in a wad. A single instance of profane language in a post will not reslut in any % drop - not from me it won't.
So again you're still wrong about that.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my only point was----for the price of a c5 you can have an h22 that would ultimatly be faster then a c5.
u can even check the "h22 rumors or truth" thread and just look at some of the peoples times in there. i guess there faster then all the fastest h22s in GA.
maybe GA just gets bad h22s right?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'll check that topic AGAIN, but from what I remember there were very few H22As actually posting their 1/4 mile times in that topic, and the ones that did were not knocking on 12's either.
If you can quote some times posted in there to bolster your claims that would be the first step in provong your theory, but until then your comments don't hold a bit of weight in this topic.
Oh one last thing for Archidictus:
I thought you were building an H22A Civic with your Dad or something - am I confusing you with someone else, or did you change your mind and why?
09-12-2003, 05:22 AM
#66
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Re: (B18C5-EH2)
whether u like it or not, very few H22s run 12s. its just not a good setup. it may feel fast because of the torque which is foolin most ppl. most ppl on HT whether it b a hatch, coupe, sedan w/H22s run 14s, some run 13s and very few run 12s. id say the average is low 14s though. which for the HP and torque the motor is supposed to produce basically sux. i ran mid 14s in my C1 powered coupe. it had ITR cams, I/H/E and cam gears. not too bad for something that bolts right in.
09-12-2003, 05:28 AM
#67
Former Moderator
Re: (1 2 NV)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1 2 NV »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">whether u like it or not, very few H22s run 12s. its just not a good setup.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I disagree that the H22A is "not a good set-up."
It can be a good set-up, but requires more time, effort, patience, tuning, suspension work, and the person putting it all together doesn't need to half-*** things.
I'd actually like to do an H22A swap one day as time and funds allow me to (from selling the B16A out of my fiancee's 1992 hatch) just for fun and to prove to myself that the H22A can run good, but I'd NEVER trade it for my B18C5 - never.
I disagree that the H22A is "not a good set-up."
It can be a good set-up, but requires more time, effort, patience, tuning, suspension work, and the person putting it all together doesn't need to half-*** things.
I'd actually like to do an H22A swap one day as time and funds allow me to (from selling the B16A out of my fiancee's 1992 hatch) just for fun and to prove to myself that the H22A can run good, but I'd NEVER trade it for my B18C5 - never.
09-12-2003, 06:14 AM
#68
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Re: (eg6turbo)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by eg6turbo »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">strip ur car down to the bone throw a y8 with turbo with slicks at 10 psi u are there...12's...u cant beat the price of a sohc turbo....for the price of a gsr engine u can have a half built sohc running 10psi and 13's all day.... </TD></TR></TABLE>
^^^Cheapest way IMO^^^
^^^Cheapest way IMO^^^
09-12-2003, 07:02 AM
#69
Unceasing Measure
Re: (B18C5-EH2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Oh one last thing for Archidictus:
I thought you were building an H22A Civic with your Dad or something - am I confusing you with someone else, or did you change your mind and why?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Oh that was me alright. We're still planning on building some sort of Honda engine to toss in my EH3, but we sold the H22 (it was OBD2 anyhow...wiring...psh) mainly because it had ATTS and I didn't want to deal with it.
Am I stuck on the H22 as much as I used to be? Nah. I mean, you break down the cost vs. power and reliability and the C5 actually ends up ahead. Will I ever put a C5 in my hatch? Hell no. Is it because I have anything at all against it? Hell no. It's a fantastic piece of machinery and serves as an incredible platform to build upon. I just like the process of messing with **** too much to mess with such a well balanced (and rather expensive) engine.
B20VTEC, H22A, boosted B18C...who knows. I guess you can say I've taken reality into account moreso than bench racing and mathematical formulation to get to this point. I'm not "on the side" of either engine, but I'm definately not a supporter of gross stupidity and/or ignorance, hence my speaking out.
Oh well.
By the way. I appreciate the fact that, even with your hella-busy schedule, you still have the time to remember who the individual members of this board are. You're a good guy, Tom
.
I thought you were building an H22A Civic with your Dad or something - am I confusing you with someone else, or did you change your mind and why?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Oh that was me alright. We're still planning on building some sort of Honda engine to toss in my EH3, but we sold the H22 (it was OBD2 anyhow...wiring...psh) mainly because it had ATTS and I didn't want to deal with it.
Am I stuck on the H22 as much as I used to be? Nah. I mean, you break down the cost vs. power and reliability and the C5 actually ends up ahead. Will I ever put a C5 in my hatch? Hell no. Is it because I have anything at all against it? Hell no. It's a fantastic piece of machinery and serves as an incredible platform to build upon. I just like the process of messing with **** too much to mess with such a well balanced (and rather expensive) engine.
B20VTEC, H22A, boosted B18C...who knows. I guess you can say I've taken reality into account moreso than bench racing and mathematical formulation to get to this point. I'm not "on the side" of either engine, but I'm definately not a supporter of gross stupidity and/or ignorance, hence my speaking out.
Oh well.
By the way. I appreciate the fact that, even with your hella-busy schedule, you still have the time to remember who the individual members of this board are. You're a good guy, Tom
.
09-12-2003, 07:13 AM
#70
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Re: (Jin Yamato)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jin Yamato »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Main reason to stay out of the EG+ Forum. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, exactly, stay out! The guy asked for cheapest way to hit 12's with B-Series and you come back wiith 'Sell it and get a DSM'.
Main reason to stay out of the EG+ Forum.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Yeah, exactly, stay out! The guy asked for cheapest way to hit 12's with B-Series and you come back wiith 'Sell it and get a DSM'.
09-12-2003, 07:34 AM
#72
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My friend has an h22 civic everything is quality, and he did everything the right way. The car was completely gutted, lightweight fidanza Flywheel Action Clutch, Integra rate coilovers, tokico illumina struts, Sparco sprint seats, sparco steering wheel, HCP mounts, on Nitto 555r drag radials. The car as never ran in the 8's in the eigth. First run down the track 2 days after putting my motor in I ran an 8.73, this was my very first run. In the quarter he was running 14.1's-14.3's. He has a fuel pressure regulator and Fiber images hood as well, and Jic magic Bullet exhaust. My car is a 93 cx with JDM b18c R spec, AEM FPR, Chipped ECU, Intake, and Apexi WS exhaust (FOR SALE!!!), the only time I have ran the quarter I ran a 13.6 @ 100 mph but the track was so slick it was almost like it was wet. I asked him how much he had in his and he has $12,000-$13,000 in it. I have a total of less than $9000 in mine including the price of the car. That leaves me with $3000-$4000 worth of mods to my b18c5. I cant even imagine how fast it would be if I put that much more in it. His H22 is bad *** and has a lot of torque but I wouldnt trade my c5 for anything, just like Tom said.
Modified by 88sirhatch at 5:08 PM 9/12/2003
Modified by 88sirhatch at 5:08 PM 9/12/2003
09-12-2003, 08:20 AM
#74
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Re: (infinatenexus)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by infinatenexus »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If he has that set up,, and is only in the low 14's,, then it wasen't done the right way</TD></TR></TABLE>
How do you know that? 88sirhatch said it was done correctly. Maybe he just sucks ***** at driving.
How do you know that? 88sirhatch said it was done correctly. Maybe he just sucks ***** at driving.
09-12-2003, 08:32 AM
#75
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Re: (97DXhatch)
He is actually a pretty damn good driver, he is pulling 2.0 60 fts and was pulling 2.1 60 fts on street tires. There is also another one here that most of you all probably know about it was one of the first ones around ITR yellow paint eg hatch with h22 and a lot of bolt ons. His best at the track was a 9.2 in the 1/8th and this car is from louisville and has a 12 second club sticker on the window from OVIS events.