transpar_nt

I've got a 92 civic (rear drums) and will soon be converting to DA hardware. Is there any harm in doing the engine bay stuff before changing the actual brakes? It would be for about a month or so. The reason I'm asking is that I would like to do the engine bay stuff along with the motor swap, but won't have enough money to get the other stuff ready by then. (Calipers powdercoated and new TA bushings). And I'm still unsure of the brake lines...

For reference the parts I'll be using are as follows:
-DA trailing arms / front knuckles / calipers
-DA proportioning valve
-EG brake booster
-88-91 civic Ex MC (canadian Si)
-Brembo blanks up front
-Generic (Eurorotor) in the rear
-BRAKE LINES???? (EG, DC, or DA?)

Here's a bonus question! Which color should I choose for the calipers? For reference my car is a black wingless 4dr EG. Right now I have silver Konig Imagine's, but I will be selling those soon and will be buying something black with a polished lip (maybe MR5's). No pics of my car but it will look similar to this (only 4 doors and less spokes):

(if this is your picture and you want it taken down just say so)

I'll leave the poll open for color choices on the calipers, but please don't be wieners about it. I don't want my thread locked

transpar_nt

Note to whomever made the smartass reply about the wheels:
THOSE ARE NOT MY WHEELS!! I MENTIONED THIS IN MY FIRST POST. THE POINT OF THE PICTURE IS TO GIVE AN EXAMPLE OF A BLACK EG WITH BLACK WHEELS AND POLISHED LIP. Remember how I said I'd most likely get the MR5's? Dumbass.

Thanks to those of you who gave an honest answer.

Bump for info on my original question.

IHateJDM

replacing the prop valve will throw off your brake balance, and a bigger MC on smaller brakes will make them very sensitive. other than that, you'll be fine.

RTI

A bigger MC will make your brakes less sensitive. the mc from a EF ex sedan is 15/16, whereas the EG MC w/o abs is 13/16. The larger piston area with the same caliper piston area will make the pedal harder to press, but will travel a smaller distance (the pedal will feel more firm) and give you more controlled braking.

transpar_nt

Thanks for the help so far guys. I know the prop valve will throw off the brake balance, but would it be so off that the car wouldn't be safe to drive?

litterbox

Flat black dude.

transpar_nt

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by litterbox &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Flat black dude.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Have anything to contribute to the first question? Pretty please (Not, "Please pretty.")

IHateJDM

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RTI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The larger piston area with the same caliper piston area will make the pedal harder to press, but will travel a smaller distance (the pedal will feel more firm) and give you more controlled braking. </TD></TR></TABLE>

This is what I meant when I said it would be more sensitive (same braking power with less pedal movement).

transpar_nt

Thanks for the ricer poll choice addition I would consider the guy who spray paints his stock civic brake w/ rear drums a ricer, but each to his own. I have no qualms with powdercoating my calipers b/c A) Huge improvement over my stock brakes, so I don't mind if people notice them. B) Powdercoats don't tarnish or stain and will take tremendous abuse before chipping. In most cases the metal itself will bend/break before the coating does.

Up for more opinions and a solid answer to my original question. So far I'm really liking the red, black, and baby blue, but more options are always welcomed!

JasonGhostz

Have you checked http://www.goldlinebrakes.com ? They mention some interesting things when comparing powdercoating vs polymer coating.

They quoted me $160 per caliper to rebuild and polymer coat stock Honda rear calipers for a 99-00 Civic SI/compatible (7CLP13S/R3). I don't know how this compares to the prices you were quoted for powdercoating. The sucky thing is that even if you send them brand new calipers, they still have to fully break it down and essentially rebuild it.

Anyway, I vote for bare metal or clear POLYMER coat... Let us know how things go!
JasonGhostz

JasonGhostz

As far as cleaning the engine bay and how it might affect your brakes.. I guess you just need to be careful with any rubber hoses, and be careful not to bend/damage any of the hydraulic lines. Hopefully someone who has actually cleaned their engine bay can give more help. But I think a lot of it depends on what you use to clean it (chemicals and such).

For your brake lines, I would recommend sticking with your chassis family (EG). I am unsure as to how "bolt-on-able" they'll be, but my thinking is that the brake hoses need to be the proper length to reach the brake lines from your chassis/frame to connect to your TA and caliper. The concerns I would have would be regarding any differences with mounting points *on the trailing arm* for these hoses. From all I've seen, things *look* similar for the brake hose bracket that mounts to the inside of the TA, but I couldn't take any proper measurements at the time. Again, hopefully someone who has done an EG drum-to-disc conversion using DA TAs will be able to help you more... I'm working on my EK(EX)/EM1, so these things aren't as much as a worry for me... yet.

Lastly, I've read on there being differences between Parking Brake Cable mounting points between certain TAs. While the DA TA might/not be the same size as your EG TA, there is potential for a problem to arise with the bolt locations for the cables...

Anway, keep us in the loop and GL!
JasonGhostz

sockvtec

DA front knuckles wont work right in your chassis, you have to have the DC's

transpar_nt

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sockvtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">DA front knuckles wont work right in your chassis, you have to have the DC's</TD></TR></TABLE>
There are a few members here who have done it. From what I've read the DA knuckle is a little bit taller so it throws off the camber a tad, but I have too much negative camber right now so this shouldn't be a problem (even it out). If camber does become an issue I have a camber kit that I can use to adjust it all out. I need an alignment anyway.

transpar_nt

Jason, I've been watching your trailing arm thread. You're one helluva helpful guy shen it comes to brakes/suspension. I think you might have had one too many to drink though cuz I never mentioned anything about cleaning the engine bay. My question was, is it harmful to run on a DA prop valve and an EF Ex BB w/ my stock brakes for a short time (about a month)? I would like to change the engine bay stuff along with my engine swap, but won't have the TA's and calipers ready in time.

BTW, I was quoted $80 (canadian) for complete dissassembly, cleaning, and blasting for all four calipers. This is from a guy who just opened his own coating shop and is well respected locally. I don't have the money for polymer coating (if local prices are anything like yours).

JasonGhostz

Hey there, transpar_nt! Yeah, maybe a little too many s... I thought you were talking 'bout cleaning the e.bay, not the e.bay installations...

Unfortunately, I can't provide any insight regarding compatibilty (for the e.bay stuff) other than to mention things you probably already read ad nauseum (pedal feel, travel, etc.). It's just my preference, but I'd prefer to do all of the brake stuff together, and all of the engine swap stuff together. This will make it easier to troubleshoot if you encounter problems, as changing too much at once can make it hard to determine what causes what.

Doing the engine bay installations before anything else will at least let you know for certain whether your parts will bolt up, but you'll have to bleed your brakes at least 1 more time (which can also lead to more PITA problems).

Ah well... Great hook-up for the powdercoating! I still have a lot to look into before I do any coating, if that's what I decide to do. I've heard of people who had their threaded bolt holes "accidentally" coated, causing the caliper bolts to break during installation! The goldlinebrakes site also mentions the trapping of heat for powdercoated calipers, but with so many people doing it to their brakes, I don't know how much of an issue it is (for practical use, auto-x, etc.). I know it looks great, though...

Regarding the knuckles, I will first say that I don't know anything .. I am curious as to whether the DA knuckle/hub assembly uses the same hub/bearing assembly (Honda PNs) as the EGs (or certain ones). Since the 99 EX Coupe has the same front brake setup as the 99 SI Coupe, I haven't looked into knuckle compatibility yet.

GL again, and keep us in the know!
JasonGhostz

sockvtec

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by transpar_nt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There are a few members here who have done it. </TD></TR></TABLE>

yes...me being one of those members, and im telling you jus like anyone else who has done it that it will not work properly

but i say go ahead and do it just so i can prove you wrong

JasonGhostz

(for sockvtec) So what is/are the difference/s between the EG and DA knuckles that accounts for the DA knuckles' "not working right"? I haven't had either in my posession, so be confident I'm not doubting you... I'm just curious...

Is there a size difference with any of its dimensions, including the inner diameter for the bearing/hub assembly? Do they have different attachment points (for calipers, arms, etc.)? Does "not working right" = "won't fit your car" or "will bolt on, but your alignment will be way off" or something else?

Again, I guess it doesn't REALLY matter *to me* since I have an EK and can simply emulate the EM.. I just love filling my brain with correct information that I will likely not use...

That's why I majored in Philosophy!
I think I am there for...
JasonGhostz

sockvtec

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JasonGhostz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">(for sockvtec) So what is/are the difference/s between the EG and DA knuckles that accounts for the DA knuckles' "not working right"? I haven't had either in my posession, so be confident I'm not doubting you... I'm just curious...

Is there a size difference with any of its dimensions, including the inner diameter for the bearing/hub assembly? Do they have different attachment points (for calipers, arms, etc.)? Does "not working right" = "won't fit your car" or "will bolt on, but your alignment will be way off" or something else?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes they will bolt on, i did drive on them for about 300 miles and i bought brand new tires for the swap, and after 300 miles, i can already see the wires in my tires.....im not quite sure the specs, but i think the DA knuckles have more of a bend in the arm resulting in pulling the uca down from its normal operating level (when i hit a bump i could hear the thud of the knuckle hit the top of my strut tower)....i made a post about an alignment with these knuckels on my car and people said it would be pointless because theres nothing that can fix this, even with a camber kit...im sure you could align it to spec, but the knuckles just dont go with the chassis right...another thing is, when you cut the wheel all the way to the right or left, the knuckle actually rubs along the strut so doing u-turn has become impossible (i have to 3 point turn in a u-turn situation)


DA knuckles dont go on EG chassis

for an EF chassis tho...different story, works wonders

cliff notes: 92-95 chassis needs the 94-01 DC brakes (or 99-00 si), 88-91 civic/crx needs the 90-93 DA brakes (or the 90-91 civic EX)


sorry if that doesnt explain well, but im tellin you its a nightmare




EDIT: heres the thread i made https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1361814

sockvtec

someone else come in here and back me up, i cant be the only dum dum whose done this

transpar_nt

Alright, alright! I believe you! ****, I guess that means I have more stuff to buy

IHateJDM

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sockvtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">someone else come in here and back me up, i cant be the only dum dum whose done this </TD></TR></TABLE>

never done it myself, but it won't just affect camber, the way the suspension is designed, changes in camber will affect your toe as well.

DC4_MADMAN

I bit off from your topic, but I am also doing the DA TA swap, but I am rebuilding them with all new parts.

If you need new wheel bearings\hubs, try the 91 CRX SI bearing\hub, perfect match to the spindle. JasonGhostz helped me on this one as well.

Thats about as far as I have made it.

As for calipers I am buying Cardon remans(DC), tearing them down and VHT them satin black, I will also be VHTing the rotors so as not to get the nasty rotor rust all over the place.

Just some extra things for you to ponder.

Good luck.

sockvtec

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by transpar_nt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Alright, alright! I believe you! ****, I guess that means I have more stuff to buy </TD></TR></TABLE>

yea man it sucks, i had to buy the 94-01 front and found a set of 99 gsr complete fronts (knuckles, rotors, lines, ucs'a, calipers) for 235 shipped

check out the classifieds they are your friend