byronl

I'm in the middle of bleeding the FR brake, but whenever i fluid to the reservoir and put the cap back on I start to see alot of air bubbles come out of the bleeder screw even though it's tightened on. Is this supposed to happen because I've already gone through half a bottle of brake fluid.

I also just changed the brake fluid too, in the old fluid there was this fungus thing in it, black stuff, what is that? thx for any help.

EGsd67

you should go to like kragen or an auto store and get one of the brake bleeding kits its only like 10-15 buck it'll come in handy later any way.
or if you don't wanna do that put the brake fluid in and have some one pump the brakes until u see fluid come out then tell them to hold the brake down once u see fluid come out then tighten and cap

byronl

when i put fluid back into the reservoir and put the cap back on, I tell my partner to pump the brakes and hold it and as soon as I'm ready to loosen the bleeder screw I see big air bubbles come out of the bleeder screw and I can also see some brake fluid leaking around it. I'm guessing the bleeder screw is messed up. any ideas on how to fix that?

ROOROWNS

theres a check ball inside of the bleeder screw. Completely remove the bleeder screw and wash it out thoroughly. The ball inside the bleeder screw might not be returning to its "closed" position, because its gunked up with that so called "fungus" you mentioned before.
Sean

byronl

thx! i'll try that

byronl

well, I cleaned out the bleeder screws and put them back on but it still does it. After i bled them, the pedal felt firmer but when i turned the car on, the pedal didn't feel firmer anymore.

Luserkid

You are bleeding all the brakes not just the FR right?

AutoXer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EG_Black_Hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">theres a check ball inside of the bleeder screw. Completely remove the bleeder screw and wash it out thoroughly. The ball inside the bleeder screw might not be returning to its "closed" position, because its gunked up with that so called "fungus" you mentioned before.
Sean</TD></TR></TABLE>

No there isn't, air can be pulled back into the screw. It's a valve, that's all, nothing to stop air from being pulled back in.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by byronl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">when i put fluid back into the reservoir and put the cap back on, I tell my partner to pump the brakes and hold it and as soon as I'm ready to loosen the bleeder screw I see big air bubbles come out of the bleeder screw and I can also see some brake fluid leaking around it. I'm guessing the bleeder screw is messed up. any ideas on how to fix that?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sounds like you might not be doing it properly. For about 2-3 bucks, you can get a little catch can with tubing on it from the parts store to bleed your brakes. If you have some tubing lying around that will fit the bleed screw, that will work to; just run it into a small cup or something so that it will be submerged.

With the car running, and someone at the brakes, release the valve. Press the pedal 3-4 times, and on the 4th time, hold the pedal at about 1/2 way down and close the valve. Repeat until you don't see any bubbles coming out of the bleed screw in the tubing. You may see some caught in the tubing, which is okay, as long as no bubbles are coming out of the valve. Also, make sure the tube is in some oil, so that when the pedal is pumped, it won't suck air back into the lines.

byronl

here's how I bled the brakes:
I use the plastic tube and put one end on the bleeder screw and submerge the other end in brake fluid. The person at the brakes pumps the brakes about 4 times and then he holds it. While he is holding it I open the bleeder valve and I see fluid come out and air. I tighten the valve and he releases the brakes. I then repeat the steps while adding more brake fluid to the reservoir. I started from RR, FL, RL, FR.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EX_AutoXer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Sounds like you might not be doing it properly. For about 2-3 bucks, you can get a little catch can with tubing on it from the parts store to bleed your brakes. If you have some tubing lying around that will fit the bleed screw, that will work to; just run it into a small cup or something so that it will be submerged.

With the car running, and someone at the brakes, release the valve. Press the pedal 3-4 times, and on the 4th time, hold the pedal at about 1/2 way down and close the valve. Repeat until you don't see any bubbles coming out of the bleed screw in the tubing. You may see some caught in the tubing, which is okay, as long as no bubbles are coming out of the valve. Also, make sure the tube is in some oil, so that when the pedal is pumped, it won't suck air back into the lines.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

So what your saying is that I should turn the car on while I'm bleeding the brakes? then I open the bleeder screw, start pumping the pedal 3-4 times and on the 4th hold it and then tight the bleeder valve?


Modified by byronl at 8:58 PM 4/18/2005

AutoXer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by byronl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> While he is holding it I open the bleeder valve and I see fluid come out and air. I tighten the valve and he releases the brakes.

So what your saying is that I should turn the car on while I'm bleeding the brakes? then I open the bleeder screw, start pumping the pedal 3-4 times and on the 4th hold it and then tight the bleeder valve?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes. You were bleeding it wrong. By having the valve closed while pumping, you weren't doing anything. You also weren't getting all (or any) of the air out of the system by opening the valve while held and then closing it.

You have to open the valve, pump the brakes to force air and fluid through the system, then hold and close the valve. The brake booster works on a vacuum, so by having the car on, it provides power to the system to allow more fluid to be pumped and air evacuated.

byronl

alright I'll try this tomrrow since I'm too lazy to do it right now, it's dark. Also do i have to have the reservoir cap off while im doing this or do i leave the reservoir cap on?

AutoXer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by byronl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">alright I'll try this tomrrow since I'm too lazy to do it right now, it's dark. Also do i have to have the reservoir cap off while im doing this or do i leave the reservoir cap on?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Doesn't really matter as long as there's fluid in there. I leave it off, just to make it easier to continually top it off if I'm doing all the corners.

95DxSi-R2

woooooooow. i've never bleed brakes with the vehicle running. the rotation is wrong also. furthest from the master cylinder first RR LR RF LF. does it have abs? if so it's going to take awhile to bleed it out. i hope u don't.
Refuring to auto exer, u never pump up the pedal with the valve open, you suck air in.
By pumping the pedal before opening it your building psi all the way around, this will get more fluid/air out instead of opening and then pushing down.
start at the left rear, pump the brake about 5 times or more. hold down on the pedal, open the right rear valve, when the pedal is down to the floor close the valve, repeat till all the air is out. i don't use a hose submurged in fluid, i just look at the stream, but whatever floats your boat. The pedal wouln't be as hard when you start the car, thats the brake booster. Good Luck

byronl

yea i thought u were supposed to pump thep edal with the valve closed too but iono, that's how my teacher taught me how to do it. In the haynes manual it says RR, FL, RL, FR so that's what i did at the time. I also don't have ABS. Even though I did that, I waited about a minute just to see what happens and after a minute I see air bubbles come out of the hose when I didn't do anything or the person on the brake pedal applied any brakes. A little bit of fluid is also leaking out of the sides of the bleeder hole.

AutoXer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95DxSi-R2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the rotation is wrong also. furthest from the master cylinder first RR LR RF LF. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I didn't see anywhere he specified the rotation he was using. Either way, his procedure was wrong. I'm looking at my helms right now, and the order specified is: RR FL RL FR. I was reading it as though he only cracked one line and needed to bleed one corner.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95DxSi-R2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> u never pump up the pedal with the valve open, you suck air in.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's why you have the line submerged in fluid by getting a catch can.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95DxSi-R2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
By pumping the pedal before opening it your building psi all the way around, this will get more fluid/air out instead of opening and then pushing down. </TD></TR></TABLE>

As soon as you release the pedal, there is no pressure in the system. If this was true, when you let go of the brake at a stoplight, you'd still have pressure in the lines and the brakes would be on when you try to accelerate.

The helms does specify to pump the brake slowly to the floor while the valve is closed and then opening it like you said. This will expell fluid at a high pressure and rate, and will prevent air from being sucked back in. By having the car running and tube submerged, you don't have to worry about it. This will also allow you to use a self bleeder (a little pricey) if you don't have somone to open the valve while it's under pressure (as is usually the case when I'm at the track and flushing the lines with clean fluid).

Luserkid

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EX_AutoXer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yes. You were bleeding it wrong. By having the valve closed while pumping, you weren't doing anything. You also weren't getting all (or any) of the air out of the system by opening the valve while held and then closing it.

You have to open the valve, pump the brakes to force air and fluid through the system, then hold and close the valve. The brake booster works on a vacuum, so by having the car on, it provides power to the system to allow more fluid to be pumped and air evacuated.

</TD></TR></TABLE>


I have never done it this way with the valve open while pumping then close when holding. That is completely backwards. This is how i do it and always works for me (minus ABS, **** ABS bleeds take it to the dealer because you need a very expensive tool for it)

Start the car
Raise car in air one section at a time (RR, LR, FR, FL, thats my order)
Take off cap from resoviour
Put hose on the nipple
Have someone pump 5 times and hold on the 5th
While being held loosen the valve.
When you see the fluid stop close valve.
Repeat the pump atleast 3 times.
Lower car.
Check resoviour, fill if need be.


I do this with all my brakes setups that ive done.

byronl

I have another question, I don't think my bleeder screws have any sealer around the threads. Is that a problem?

Luserkid

Nope, i dont think there is anything on the threads.

Dumbquestions

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Luserkid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have never done it this way with the valve open while pumping then close when holding. That is completely backwards. This is how i do it and always works for me (minus ABS, **** ABS bleeds take it to the dealer because you need a very expensive tool for it)

Start the car
Raise car in air one section at a time (RR, LR, FR, FL, thats my order)
Take off cap from resoviour
Put hose on the nipple
Have someone pump 5 times and hold on the 5th
While being held loosen the valve.
When you see the fluid stop close valve.
Repeat the pump atleast 3 times.
Lower car.
Check resoviour, fill if need be.


I do this with all my brakes setups that ive done. </TD></TR></TABLE>
till fluid stops coming? I thought it was till bubbles stop coming? What about doing it 3 times? Seems like a bit of overkill, no? Just curious.

95DxSi-R2

nope, shouldn't be

Luserkid

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dumbquestions &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
till fluid stops coming? I thought it was till bubbles stop coming? What about doing it 3 times? Seems like a bit of overkill, no? Just curious.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You open the valve and if you have it on a clear tube you will see the fluid slow down. You dont want the fluid just pouring out because that doesnt do much. When you release the valve the pressure on the MC is leaving and the pumper will hit the floor. You dont want him to hit the floor completely and hard or else it could damage the MC. So just do it really until you see the fluid slow down.

I dont mean the order 3 times. I mean open and close the bleeder valve 3 times. I dont see it being a overkill because your making sure you get all the air out. 1st hit makes sure the majority of air is out, 2nd to check that and finally 3rd should be only fluid.

AutoXer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Luserkid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have never done it this way with the valve open while pumping then close when holding. That is completely backwards. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Like I said, it's not the way specified in the helms, and probably not the way anyone was taught in technical school. The way I described is to get a large volume of fluid through while expelling the air. If I'm at the track or flushing the whole system, that's the way I'll do it, and I know many who do the same.

The whole point of bleeding is to remove the air, and the most foolproof way is to do it as described in the manual. If the tube is in fluid, it will not suck air back in; and by pumping, it will flush the whole line. There isn't much of a backflush when the pedal is released, and the MC forces a lot of fluid through when the pedal is pressed and the piston is not engaged. When I'm down there bleeding, I always just do a whole flush. Take that for what you will.

garaged_Si

Pump the pedal with the bleeder valve close! then hold before u loosen the bleeder valves. and go from the farthest from the MC to the nearest.

byronl

I notice when I press on the brakes while the car is off the brakes are firm but they don't get harder. It just feels the same and when I turn the car on I'm thinking maybe hte brake booster is bad. What do you guys think?