93-civic-cx

i am not sure the difference in these. i always thought jdm engines were better but i have read alot of tom's (B18C5-EH2) sucess with the usdm c5.... i am basically just starting this project car.. right now it is lowed with coil-overs... full sway bar... drives so tight around corners.. right now it is has the stock d15b8 engine with dcsport 4-1 headers and aem cold air intake... i want to take this car to the next level. i am still debating on the b18c1 or the type r swap... but i found a b18c-r swap cheap! so i have done some research on it and think the type r swap (b18c5 or b18c-r) is the better choice... i just need to know the pros and cons of the 2 if someone can.. this is goign to be my daily driver and has a system and just the steelie rims and stock tires for now.. i bought this car with the sus and eng done as far as it is and hope to buy a stock 95 cx and move everything e0er and do it all myself for the learning experience..

what do you guys think i should do??? b18c5 or b18c-r or maybe a better suggestion yet???

thanks in advance

black cx

alot of people are going to tell you to search...

in your title you said b18c5 vs b18c-R
In the US, the Type R motor is labeled b18c5 on the block.
In Japan, the Type R motor is labeled B18C on the block.

The difference is that JDM Type R motors have more compression. In the 98-00 JDM Type R motors, they have a different final drive. They also have a 4-1 header. Also, cosmetically, the 98-00 have a fake Carbon spark plug cover.

In your post, you talk about B18C1, which is the US integra GSR motor...big difference from compression to cams, to tranny.

93-civic-cx

ya i have searched around for about a year now planning this... but i recently discovered the b18c-r and haven't heard alot about it. i was more leaning toward suggestions. everyone has a diff application and i think i explained the situation well enough... i should have not even mentioned the c1...
the availabilty for this b18c-r swap ends tomorow.. it is a 2001 complete swap with axels and 3800miles everything for $2400 shipped. i think that is an amazing deal if it is for real.. it is a private owner and i am learing of just transfering the money with no insurance
anyway i want as much input as i can get by tomorow evening
thanks black cx for your info

HATCHingMN

B18c type R cus it's JDM

they dont show much difference at the dyno

black cx

wow, thats a good deal..to good to be true...just be careful of scammers..

SRd240sx

a big plus for the c5 is if you can get paperwork, it can be done legally

93-civic-cx

hmm what do you mean legally? ya i am extremly worried about this being a scam... but i hope not... i think i am going to take the chance

703_Sleeper

see if you can get a compression test done too. And check the stamps to make sure you are not gettig a JDM GSR with a red valve cover.

93-civic-cx

there is a pic of the p73 ecu so i am pretty sure it is the type r...

well here goes nothing... i am putting in a bid... ill keep you posted on what happens throughout the project

Capt. Jimbo McSubipants

just b/c there is a pic of a ECU means nothing....

i have a p73 running my b16..? i guess i could try and sell it and tell everyone its a R

that set aside...are you bidding on a motor from ebay....
i tried to buy a built GSR on there...that was obviously to cheap to be true...i got scammed and all money is gone...in the end it was my retardedness...but i learned my lesson...if its to big to be true...it is...

i'd do what everyone is telling you to do...ask for a compression test...why not...its worth the money your putting into it and its added safety...

ask for more pics...head stamps...and what not..

iggyracer

Well?

B18C5-EH2

That's an awfully shady-*** price for a legit Type R swap, JDM or USDM.

In terms of which one you should choose, I've always said that the US-spec ones are my first choice because:

1. Verified mileage and year

Most times you can see the clip/car the US swap comes from, the cluster, etc. etc. Such as buying from Import Auto Salvage - they know all the specs on their US stuff.

2. Higher chances of getting something new with low mileage

With US-spec 00-01 Integras being a bit more common than back in 97-98 you can still find low mileage US-spec swaps in like-new condition.

3. Easier wiring

Plug in the US-spec engine harness and have no need to run the stock Civic wiring harness and older injectors, etc. etc. On some cars (like any 1992) it is 100% plug and play with a rechipped P28

4. More complete than a JDM swap

JDM swaps usually lack important stuff like wiring harness (even if it has it it's for a RHD car), axles, shift linkage, all mounts, exhaust manifold, catalytic convertor, hoses, etc. etc. If you buy a complete US-Spec from the likes of Import Auto Salvage you get everything possibly needed for the swap, including radiator and heater hoses uncut, etc.

5. Dyno results do not favor the JDM engines over USDM engines

The two are too close to call. I've personally not seen any JDM engines in my area dyno better than my own US-Spec Type R swap with equal mods, same dyno, etc. Also it's important to remember that I have the "weakest" ITR cams being that they are the 97-98 type cams - USDM 00-01 ITRs have a more CTR-like intake cam, so they may make a slight bit more whp

IMO of course...

unclepowers

they should both say b18c5 once they are type r's....the difference between the gsr and the type r is the cams,the slightly ported head,the all important intake manifold,the throttle body,and the higher compression pistons..
and the easily interchangeable POWDER RED VALVE COVER...and i could just as easily get a type r block and stuff the lousy gsr internals in it so be careful what you are looking for...compression test is one way...but then i could put some other pistons in it and skim the head to raise the compression...so be careful what these ppl are telling tyou to look for....

AMECustom

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93-civic-cx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hmm what do you mean legally? ya i am extremly worried about this being a scam... but i hope not... i think i am going to take the chance</TD></TR></TABLE>

If its 2400 then its probably stolen like he was implying young one!

mwieczorek43

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by unclepowers &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
and the easily interchangeable POWDER RED VALVE COVER...and i could just as easily get a type r block and stuff the lousy gsr internals in it so be careful what you are looking for...compression test is one way...but then i could put some other pistons in it and skim the head to raise the compression...so be careful what these ppl are telling tyou to look for.... </TD></TR></TABLE>

Do you really think some one is going to take the time to tear-apart an entire motor and rebuild it with lesser parts... just to save a few hundred bucks? Granted, there are alot of scammers. But replacing a valve-cover, new internals, new ecu, milling the head all seem like a stretch just to pass off a gsr as an R. I personally won't buy anything from ebay if it's over $500. Especially a Hype R that sells for the price of a shipped LS.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AMECustom &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">probably stolen like he was implying young one!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Whats with the 'young one' comment? Do you know how old he is? How old are you? Just curious

unclepowers

..gsr parts are cheap and it takes no time or effort whatsoever to build a motor..so think about it...worst if you have the parts lying around..and some ppl are not chap like you...they are willing to spend big bucks to get a "performance" motor..

mwieczorek43

Chap? or Cheap?
If I'm willing to "spend the big-bucks for a performance motor"... I'm not going to need to waist my time on scamming a few-hundred from a motor on ebay.

and fyi: I have a College education and a damn-good job as a result. So don't assume I'm broke.

B18C5-EH2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by unclepowers &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">they should both say b18c5 once they are type r's....</TD></TR></TABLE>

Welcome to the internet

First of all you are WRONG. JDM Type R engines do not say B18C5 - they simply say B18C with no number following the "C" - too bad JDM GS-R also says the exact same B18C with no "1" either.

For this reason you have to look very carefully at a JDM Type R engine to make sure someone didn't swap parts onto a GS-R engine since both blocks have the same code. An intake manifold and red valvecover would be enough to fool rookies, but I know better. A Type R should have a number of identification marks to look for, but the most prominent is the "PR3" head stamp:



Unless someone goes through the trouble to swap a B16A head and all the other ITR components (highly doubtful as most scammers lookm for quick/easy money) you can rest assured you got a Type R engine if it's got a PR3 head and the other ITR stuff like...

Intake manifold:



LSD tranny:



If you're lucky the tranny may even still have the stamp on it:



<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the difference between the gsr and the type r is the cams,the slightly ported head,the all important intake manifold,the throttle body,and the higher compression pistons..</TD></TR></TABLE>

You left out soooo much more, but that's off-topic here seeing as how he's not trying to decide between a GS-R or ITR swap.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and the easily interchangeable POWDER RED VALVE COVER...and i could just as easily get a type r block and stuff the lousy gsr internals in it </TD></TR></TABLE>

Nobody would ever do that. Why waste so much time and effort just to keep some ITR internals and swap them into another block? Scammers cannot usually afford the ITr engine in the first place, so why ruin a perfectly good ITR block with Gs-R internals? A guy would have to be one dumbfuck criminal to do so.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so be careful what you are looking for...compression test is one way...but then i could put some other pistons in it and skim the head to raise the compression...so be careful what these ppl are telling you to look for.... </TD></TR></TABLE>

Again way too much work for no gains. You'd make what, $1000,00 more for selling a GS-R as an ITR, buy you'd have to do so much work and add extra **** to do so, again refer to my above comment...

I love it when some guy comes in spewing in nonsense he read from some generic honda website with 1/2 wrong bullshit info, then posts it as facts and even talks down to people who know twice as much as he does.

Ricey McRicerton

I love you Tom.

93-civic-cx

i am pretty sure this was a scam... because he told me he didn't want to end the auction early because you can't when there is already bids on it... wrong... and he told me if i won the auction he would still sell it to me for 2400 which makes no sence on his part... anyway i didn't win the auction so yea for me... sold for something like 3600... here is the link .. tell me what you think http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...%3AIT

tom i am glad you posted... i was hoping for your input.. love your car... so did i inturpret your post wrong when you said that the JDM gsr motor only says B18c where the us says B18C1 or does a jdm say the 1 also?
i am still interested in the b18c5 swap and will probably go usdm now that i heard some opinions... does anyone know a good reputable site where i could get a swap cheap.. thanks in advance

SRd240sx

JDM Type R says B18C. So does the SiR-G which is the equivalent of usdm GSR.

AMECustom

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mwieczorek43 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Whats with the 'young one' comment? Do you know how old he is? How old are you? Just curious </TD></TR></TABLE>

"Young one" is implying to his naivete. Anyone with any type of common sense would realize this "young one"

93-civic-cx

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dictionary &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">naivete
n.
The state or quality of being inexperienced or unsophisticated, especially in being artless, credulous, or uncritical.
An artless, credulous, or uncritical statement or act. </TD></TR></TABLE>

so your calling me artless... i already hate you.. just kidding.. keep the info coming.. still looking for a good site to buy the b18c itr swap




Modified by 93-civic-cx at 4:00 AM 11/2/2005

AMECustom

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93-civic-cx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

so your calling me artless... i already hate you.. just kidding.. keep the info coming.. still looking for a good site to buy the b18c itr swap</TD></TR></TABLE>

No i was calling you inexperienced clearly. Don't hate me for your naivete

unclepowers

Thanks for correcting me. Seeing that you have all this internet experience .. And i know very little about JDM engine..Firstly where I am US engines are scorned and not used. And we get ALL our engines from japan. GSRs,SIR Gs are standard, B18 LSs are usually B, but we do get some B18A's from a few U.S, Canadian vehicles. So for the type r's i have seen the stamp on the block firsthand.
We also have sir b16's from integras and sir civics. And we also have a few vti's (civics) that aren't sohc, but are in fact european version sir civic with a few perks like adjustable headlights and starter disable(key comes from factory with a chip)..these are however mostly ek's.
We also have four door eg sir civics with front and rear bucket seats. Some eg's even as early as 1992 with rare traction control systems.
We have been getting type r engines since 1995.
mitsubishi evolutions since 1992.
nissan skylines since 1972.and nidssan skyline r32s since 1990.

so whatever you simply read and take as gospel.
We HAVE been doing and working for eons, decades now.
Nothing beats experience.