blk99sir

So i recently bought an EM1. Original engine with about 260 000km. Car has stock headers, k-tuned test pipe (no cat), ctr exhaust, vibrant stealth muffler. Also has full cold air intake. Since I've bought it I've noticed couple problems with the engine.
Problem 1: On initial start up while car is warming up it is spitting out what i initially thought was oil but believe its actually carbon now due to the fact that i realized that it will wash right off the driveway with a hose. Once the car is warmed up and driven if i park the car let it sit there and rev it it won't leave the marks.
Second problem: When i hit vtec there is a decent amount of smoke. Not 100% of the time, but most of the time she is puttin out a decent amount of smoke. From inside the car it seems like its black smoke so I'm assuming its oil.
Third problem: The car is drinking oil. I'm putting in over a litre of oil a gas tank.
Forth problem: Horrible gas milage. Car also smell like gas sitting there so i believe it is running rich. Also Back fires while shifting gears a lot. To my knowledge it has never been tuned. All Modds have been mentioned.

So I'm trying to narrow down the problem. I figure it can be 1 of 2 things or both. Having problems with the oil rings on the pistons....
Having bad valve stem seals
If you have an idea of what the problem could be or Any advice you have or ways that i can narrow down the problem i would appriciate.
Thanks in advance!

TomCat39

Valve seals don't tend to smoke only in high rev. Sticking and worn rings do.

Sounds to me like your second rings and oil control rings are no longer keeping up with the job.

You might get a clue that this is true by simply pulling your spark plugs and shining a good flashlight into the holes so you can see the pistons. If you have oil in the piston to wall clearance on any one of the four pistons, that's your tired worn out piston ring set that is eating all your oil.

blk99sir

Thanks for the Reply tom cat. i had recently done my spark plugs and they looked pretty bad! I didn't look down into the cylinder....( really don't know why thinking about it lol). But i do know that the spark plugs had oil on them so that is leading me to believe the rings are gone. I will pull the spark plugs and check that out tho. If it is the rings gone how bad is it to be running the car as long as oil is maintained? planning to do a swap but wouldn't mind running it a bit in the beginning of next season before i do.
Also i updated my ad. Car is running rich and backfires.... smells like gas. thinking thats a whole different issue lol... engine is hurting

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

Basic bolt-ons, as you mentioned, don't need a tune. There won't be any noticeable performance gain from them, but as long as you have the stock ECU, the gas smell isn't caused by not being tuned.

blk99sir

What do you think would cause the smell and backfiring then??
Thanks for the reply

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

Failing ignition components. A failing (or non-existant) cat. Removed, damaged, or failing evap system. Poorly set ignition timing. The wrong ECU. A failing primary O2 sensor. Actual engine modifications that you aren't listing, or aren't aware of.

And those are just things I can think of off the top of my head. The misfiring is gently nudging towards failing ignition components, though. Give the car a tune up with NGK plugs and wires, and an OEM cap and rotor, and work from there. Is the CEL on? Does it work? It should come on for ~2 seconds when you turn the key to ON(II), then turn off. If it doesn't turn off, you need to pull codes. If it doesn't turn on, you need to replace the bulb, then probably pull codes. Also, can you verify what ECU your car currently has? It should be behind the plastic kick panel to the right of the passenger footwell. There'll be a sticker on it. Tell us the numbers on that sticker.

TomCat39

Quite likely the O2 sensor is fouled as that is typically what happens when you burn excessive oil. Just like your spark plugs, the same thing begins to happen to the O2 sensor. When it can't read the A/F of the exhaust it either goes open loop or thinks it's lean and pumps more gas. Either way you end up running rich.

Everything NARC mentioned is applicable too but I also know the O2 sensor will be one of the first things affected after spark plugs when you burn lots of oil. And most people swap plugs often, especially when it starts sputtering at idle etc but rarely swap O2 sensors. So if nothing else is wrong with the motor, the most likely suspect with high oil burning is the primary O2 sensor. And of course the excess oil and excess fuel will also take out the catalytic converter.

You can go a long time burning oil but everything degrades and replacing those parts is pretty pointless until you get the oil burning situation fixed as the oil burning will just wipe out the new ones over a few years time.

The other thing that will eventually happen is burning a hole through an exhaust valve or two. All these things takes time but is the domino effect of burning excessive amounts of oil.

blk99sir

the car is a pretty much stock em1. Just some exhaust work and an intake.
i don't have a cat but the test pipe does have a bung for the o2 sensor but it does sit to the side. No idea if it was replaced when he did the exhaust last year so ill look into replacing that.
i just replaced spark plugs as i had said, and with the cap/rotor and wires again unaware of when they were replaced so ill pick that up as well over the winter.

CEL is not on and does work. Turns on for two seconds when you turn the key. Bought the car end of October and passed etest.

Got to the ecu... the only ticker with a code i could see ( abs module is mounted on the top of the ecu) was this one



Is that the numbers you need? Should be the stock ecu.

Starting to be leaning towards doing a swap on the car. Want more power and if rings are fried then i could use this engine a a project engine and try to replace them myself after i get a swap. But would like to get it running half decent to run this engine for half a season or so while i find a decent swap and maybe hit the track in the spring before i take it out
Thanks

blk99sir

That is very true lol! the o2 sensor gets forgotten about. never even crossed my mind and that makes a lot of sense... a lot of oil and what not going threw the exhaust so it would be getting pretty dirty. Now that I'm thinking about it too, the way the bung for the o2 sensor is set up it could prob trap a lot of crap in and around the sensor... ill try to jack the car up tomorrow and send a pic of the test pipe and o2 set up.
Im going to pull the plugs soon again and see if i can see oil between the piston and walls. if the rings are shot i would prob end up getting a swap. I have never messed with internals before and would prob use this engine then to take a stab at it! would much rather learn some stuff with the engine then sell it for a few hundred bux.
Thanks for the advice!

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

OK, let's go down the list. The O2 sensor down where the cat belongs is (or at least should be) your secondary, not your primary. Your secondary O2 sensor doesn't care about any of that, and has no control over the engine, it's just there to see if the cat is doing it's job. If it's installed, though, and your CEL isn't on...there's something funky going on. Can you find another O2 sensor on the exhaust, closer to the head?

For plugs, wires, cap, and rotor, NGK NGK OEM OEM. Seriously, Honda ignition systems in our year range really do NOT like aftermarket parts. I don't know why, it's just how it is. Yes, it'll be a little more expensive, but 5+ years of reliable function vs 1 year of maybe reliable function, it's a no brainer.

CEL being off and working is a good sign for now, at least.

It's a little blurry, but it looks like that says P2T? That would be the stock 99-00 SI ECU, which is also a good sign.

There are multiple directions you could go if you really want more power, all depending on your budget, goals, and what you're willing to do. Check out the FAQ sticky. There are two very comprehensive "So you want to make your car faster" threads there for you to read. As for getting the engine through another 6 months of driving, well, that just depends on where the failure is. Do a dry compression test, and follow it immediately with a wet compression test. Post the numbers for both tests, and we might be able to tell you what's starting to fail. Oil on the sleeves can come from multiple locations, not just failing rings.

White_EG1

I'm running accel 8.5mm wires and can only say good things about them. Increased throttle response, faster cold starts, etc. Paired with NGK plugs, ran for 2 years, my car never not started or took more than 2 cranks from the flywheel to do so.

TomCat39

I'm interested in this and it might prove informative for the OP too.

I am suspect that the valve seals would leak enough to fill just the P2W space with oil before burning off. Oil will go into the water jacket long before getting into the cylinder from a head gasket as far as I've been able to tell.

The only option I can think of is a crack in the head.

What other areas will fill the P2W clearance with oil besides old tired worn piston rings?

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

If an engine is "leaking" oil up through the rings (not actually a leak, but you get my point), then there will be a noticeable difference between wet and dry results. If the engine is leaking oil through the valve stem seals, the difference will be much less pronounced. I can't think of anywhere on the head gasket that it would even be possible for oil to get in without getting into the coolant first. A cracked head is just a whole other diagnostic nightmare.

TomCat39

So by this, are you indicating that the valve seals can leak sufficiently to fill the P2W clearance before burning off as it comes in from the top?

Also if the rings are tired and pushing oil up, there won't be any or much difference between the wet and dry on that cylinder because it's essentially always wet testing.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

I don't know the exact how or why behind it, I'm just reiterating what has been told to me by industry professionals, and has been proven true through personal experience on more than a few motors.

TomCat39

Your personal experience, you've noted oil in the P2W clearance consistently and had a significant variance between wet and dry?

I ask because that has not been my experience on cylinders that consistently have oil in the P2W clearance, which just so happens to be my current motor for one cylinder. It's wet and dry is not very different while the other 3 cylinders are which don't have oil in the P2W clearance on any noticeable level.

My previous motor all cylinders were dry and there was a notable difference between wet and dry tests.