zx92027xz

I fear the worst for my 1996 Civic DX, automatic transmission. Cruising at 70, no big noise, but the RPMs shoot up like I slipped into neutral. Pull over, shift to Park, back down to R, then D, but transmission refused to engage. Turning the car off and back on got it to shift back into gear, but it failed the same way at 20 MPH. Repeated the process a couple of times, once it made a harsh grinding noise before losing power.
I was able to get it onto a trailer and back home.

Is this total transmission failure?

JarvisW

Doesn't sound good.

When was the last time you changed the fluid in it? If its really old, you MIGHT get lucky just by replacing it.

But grinding clutches (even in autos), is never a good thing.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

<p>I wouldn't even bother with the fluid. &nbsp;If it's doing all that, it's done for. &nbsp;Your clutch packs are eating each other. &nbsp;It's time for a replacement. &nbsp;If you want to stay autotragic, though, make sure you get a DX transmission. &nbsp;No, you cannot &quot;upgrade&quot; to an EX autotragic. &nbsp;You have to stay DX/LX.</p>

zx92027xz

Thanks for the input. The fluid was changed several years back when I did and engine swap, which wound up being a D15B (I believe), an older model engine. The auto-manual swap is more involved than I am looking to get labor-wise at this point, so an automatic 1:1 swap is preferable. Thanks again.

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

its super easy in that chassis, doable with all stock parts

slowcivic2k

Plugged transmission filter is likely. These units are known for their pitifully small filter elements. Any rebuild kit will include an updated filter unit to prevent pump starvation.

A grind can occur when shifting into or past reverse. The lack of adequate fluid pressure allows the reverse servo to clash with the 4/R hub. Easily fixed with the filter update and an updated reverse servo shaft o-ring that is included in the rebuild kit.

The only other real questionable part in the unit is the 4 clutch drum cracking, but that is not very common.

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

BOOM!

hondur

iTrader: (1)

This is worth a try buddy.

#1 drain fluid, reinstall drain plug
#2 install genuine 3/8th inch magnefine inline transmission filter,
#3 add two qts honda ATF and 1 quart of Lucas transmission stop slip. DOUBLE CHECK THE FLUID LEVEL WHILE COLD AND ON LEVEL GROUND, MAKE SURE ITS ATLEAST ON THE DIPSTICK. you won't get an accurate reading until its warmed up, though.


At the least, it should squeeze a bit more miles out of it. Amsoil seems to work better than honda ATF, but is more expensive. if one fluid change helps, like i bet it will, do it again.

Its not the best solution but it should help get ya back on the road for approximately $100 or less.

if you hide a trans problem and sell the car i'll help the victim sue you.

Former User

Personally, I would try three consecutive drain-refill cycles with Castrol Import ATF before I replaced the transmission.

zx92027xz

Thanks for all the additional input, everyone.

I will try to drain/refill sequence RonJ suggested with the inline magnefine filter as suggested by hondur. RonJ, does it matter that the fluid that is flushed through the system is used in the transmission going forward?

I should have mentioned this upfront, but I didn't: the transmission was overfilled with fluid for a while. I knew it was over the top fill line for over 2000 miles, but I always found a reason not to drain it on any given day. Any thoughts on whether that would change the situation here?

zx92027xz

I have a replacement filter that I ordered when I replaced the motor, but I never installed it because it seemed like an intricate procedure. Can you link to a tutorial or at least give the reassurance that this is a doable job for an amateur?
Also, the grinding occurred while I was in gear, so I'm not sure what that means. Instead of just losing power to the wheels, it grinded (ground?) a little before it lost power on one of the attempts to limp home.

slowcivic2k

Grinding is generally described as a gear clash type sound, very similar to the clash you get when applying reverse while the car is still rolling forward in and manual transmission vehicle.

A grind cannot occur in this style of automatic (with the exception being reverse) because all the engagement parts are meshed, and they do not move. The only thing that changes is pressure is applied to a clutch.

Gear shudder is what you would experience in this type of case: A sudden release and reapplication of a gear that is very abrupt. This produces a jolt as the clutch (gear) cycles on and off, and can usually be set off by large changes in throttle pressure.

Make sure your fluid level is correct as well, I don't think I mentioned that before.

I cannot say this is an amateur job for you. You will most likely struggle through parts of it because you may not have the right sockets, or a clutch spring removal tool ($20). Having that said, if you can follow the service manual, and have a clutch spring compressor ($20), you CAN do this. People fear these type of repairs. Trust me, if they were that complicated, no one would do it. Taking the time to learn and practice this yourself will give you invaluable information on repairing other transmissions. Transmission repair is only as hard as you want it to be.

I would advise you to think about this before shelling out cash for another used unit that may have an entirely different set of problems, or the same problems for that matter. You will be much more successful rebuilding the current unit to a rebuilt state, because you know how it works, and what is wrong with it. It would definitely suck to stick a used transmission in, and realize 4th gear wasn't there. Now, your back to where you were, only with a totally unproven transmission. Get my point?

You need to provide very specific details about this "grinding" problem. In what gear? What was the throttle pressure like? Was it a sudden increase. The more detailed information you can provide (up to what you had for lunch that day.... j/k) can be very helpful to you and others.

zx92027xz

The fluid level was high (1/8" over the top fill line while car was running and warm) for the last 2-3k miles.

The grinding occurred in 1st gear, very low throttle pressure, going less than 5 MPH. My memory might not be serving me well here, and it could have occurred when the car shifted from reverse to drive. What I recall is that the wheels had power for a moment, then a grind, then no power.

That only happened once, and the end result was the same as before, no power to wheels. All other times, the disconnect of power to wheels happened with no noise, jolt, or change in throttle pressure.

Thanks for the continued help! I'm doing the transmission flush sequence now. I bought a magnetic in line filter (Napa brand) that I would like to install, but I'm not sure which line to install it on. Is the ATF cooling return line the innermost line or the one closer to the passenger side on the bottom of the radiator?

zx92027xz

Update: The issue persists after an ATF flush. I left the ATF level at the lower end of the dipstick to see if the issue stemmed from the high fluid level, but it didn't work out. No grinding this time around. I drove about half a mile before it slipped out of gear, getting up to ~65 MPH under moderate acceleration. Pulled over, shifted up to P then back down to D but the car didn't kick back into gear. Turned the car off and back on, and the it shifted into D, and it drove part of the way back home before it slipped back out of gear. I repeated the off and back on process several times before getting it back home. Each consecutive slip occurred at slower and slower speeds.

Again, the symptoms are equivalent to simply pushing the shifter from D to N while driving down the road. No bump, thump, jump, or ... grump. I mean grinding.
Should I:

• Rebuild this automatic transmission? It shifts fine through all the gears, so I don't suspect any other looming issues. Please let me know where to look (a link would be awesome) for a rebuild kit and/or a good tutorial. I found this video that I would probably use to guide myself through the process:
  You Tube
• Buy a used automatic transmission online? Suggestions as to reputable dealers appreciated. I don't really like the "Preferably one that tests their parts and doesn't use the catch-all "motors and transmissions have between 45k and 65k miles (trust us)" NOTE: If you think I should do an auto to manual swap, please explain why it is worth the time, money, and additional complications of the swap for a car that is kind of on its last leg. Would the worst case of buying a used manual transmission be better than worst case a used manual, i.e., are they simpler and cheaper to fix?

Former User

What exactly did you do?

zx92027xz

1. Drain
2. Fill with fresh fluid
3. Turn on and allow car to warm up, drain
4. Refill with fresh fluid
5. turn on and let it run a few minutes
6. Drain
7. Refill with fresh fluid, turn it back on and let it run a few minutes
8. Drain
9. Refill with fresh fluid and one bottle of Lucas Stop Slip

tony_2018

Did you check lvl of fluid when warmed up before trying to top off? Do you know where it suppose to be on the dipstick when topping off?

zx92027xz

I always check the fluid after the car is warmed up and running. When the problem initially occurred, the fluid was over the top fill line on the dipstick when the car was warm and in P. Repeat of the issue occurred after the flush sequence, with the fluid indication near the low fill line on the dipstick when warm and running.
I didn't try to top anything off. I assume I know where the fluid is supposed to be on the dipstick, between the fill lines. Correct me if I'm wrong.

DieMaster

iTrader: (1)

it was my understanding to do a proper ATF flush, you had to warm it up and run it though all gears P,R,N,D4,D3,2,1 and in the D's all the driving gears 1,2,3,4,OD/Lockup in order to literaly flush all the fluid possible w/o tearing it apart.

or is the "allways leave it in park" method good enough?

zx92027xz

I don't know. Anyone?

Former User

This^ is correct. Do this after each drain-refill cycle to properly mix the old and new ATF fluid before next drain-refill cycle. Otherwise, you are not properly diluting/removing the old ATF.

slowcivic2k

That is important information, but the only times automatic transmission fluid service will have any effect on driveability are:

If the fluid level was too high, or too low. (Too high == foaming, too low == self-explanatory)
If the wrong fluid was put in the car. You'll notice this immediately after service.

In some RARE instances, the excessive thinning of the fluid will produce shudder-like effects between shifts, and during TCC operation. This only really applies to vehicles that tow, or are driven excessively hard.

It is plausible that a minimal amount of material suspended in the transmission fluid was removed during the service. This unfortunately does not break up the material in the filter, or any of the valve body screens. This problem will persist until you verify the clutch apply pressures with a gauge, or pull apart the transmission and inspect the filter, oil pump body and gears, and the valve body screens.

Former User

Nonetheless, multiple ATF drain-refill cycles seem to resolve many transmission problems thought to be unsolvable for our civics.

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

your trans is done. your symptoms are very typical of a failed automatic transmission. when you break down cost to cost on an auto to manual conversion vs a full auto trans rebuild, you will find theyre close to even. used d series m/t= 100. new clutch kit AND flywheel off of rock auto- 150 or less. mount (your chassis can use an oem m/t civic mount of the same era)- 20 online. at my local yard, i pay $30 for a clutch mc, slave, lines, reservoir. the upsides are increased MPG, increased manliness (see third pedal), increased reliability (automatic transmissions suck, as you can clearly see), less maintenance, cheaper rebuild/maintenance parts, and last but most certainly not least- a 5 speed trans will make your slow, boring daily driver more spirited and fun to drive.

zx92027xz

Spoke to a mechanic near where I'm living (small town TX, 2 hours outside of DFW) today who had the same opinion about it being toast. He asked the color of the fluid (black) and noted the symptoms before saying a rebuild or replacement is the way to go.
Here is the rebuild kit for $127.
The auto to manual swap, on the other hand, would be a bear to get together. No yards nearby to hunt through on a regular basis, so I'm stuck looking on ebay, where the prospects don't look great. >$200 for the tranny alone, not to mention all other parts (starter $50-100, clutch master/slave cylinder $30, clutch ....)
That seems too daunting. I think I'm going to rebuild it myself...