mike93eh

has anyone ever put a y8 head onto a z6 block? is there anything i should be concerned about? cam timing? ecu?? etc.. should i retard or advance the cam timing? actually what is up with the cam timing? why is the woodruff keyway on the y8 cam gear about 4 degees to the left compared to the z6 one?

mike93eh

i have noticed that once i put the y8 head on i run a little richer now. before this i had a b7 so i dont know if this is just a sohc vtec thing going on or what. it blows bluish black smoke at higher rpms and exhaust shoots out some black soot now.

the only reason i got the y8 head because a friend sold it to me for $50. should i just get a z6 head? damn i dont know i just put new oem valves and valve stem seals in it...

INVALID

Try either

ej1 wilcox or SOHC_MShue, I believe one of them did it.

mike93eh

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by INVALID &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Try either

ej1 wilcox or SOHC_MShue, I believe one of them did it. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i know sohc_mshue has a y8 block with a z6 head. the opposite of mine.

INVALID

Ah then it was him then, neither of them have what you're needing then.

mike93eh

wow has this never been done before? am i walking onto the moon for the first time here? this sucks.

mike93eh

wow what im doing is really groundbreaking ****.. i feel pretty badass since im the only person using a y8 head on a z6 block

MR_EJ8

I would really like to know to! Im planning on building a Z6 block for boost and throwing my Y8 head off my current motor on it!

civicmn91

find someone local that can tune that **** man, you don't want to be running that rich for very long. yea most people i know put the z6 head on a y8 block because higher compression/ different port design. the y8 head has swirl ports which are supposed to atomize the fuel better and increase velocity or some **** like that, anyway its more economy. but i say **** that ****, i got a y8 head and a comp cams stage 1, just wait till i get this bitch ported and polished. or yea dude try adjusting your timing, should be a few degrees off cuz the cam is different.

mike93eh

local.....tune.... HAHAHAAHAHA

im running greddy emanage kit at the stock 5.5 psi (actually 5 since i have a intercooler) so the greddy emanage that came with it is pretuned for my app. even has a sticker over it that says not street legal if removed.

anyways. anyone know what specifically is different between the cams, gear, timing on the y8 and z6??

i know on the y8 cam gear the keyway is a couple degrees to the left compared to the z6 cam gear.. whats up with that? should i retard or advance to make it like a z6. need more info..

mike93eh

bump for some experimental ****..

mike93eh

....annnnnnnnnd still nothing.

mike93eh

come on guys....put your thinking caps on. actually real tech questions here.

MR_EJ8

Bump! I need to know this **** too!

PRcivicHB

bluish black smoke and black soot?

Have you checked your compression?

Did you change the head gasket when u did the mini me?

Is this one boosted too or is it running N/A right now?
The blue box tends to run it a lil rich...

PRcivicHB

any brownish coolant?

Turbo_y8

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PRcivicHB &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">bluish black smoke and black soot?

Have you checked your compression?

Did you change the head gasket when u did the mini me?

Is this one boosted too or is it running N/A right now?
The blue box tends to run it a lil rich...</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mike93eh &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">local.....tune.... HAHAHAAHAHA

im running greddy emanage kit at the stock 5.5 psi (actually 5 since i have a intercooler) so the greddy emanage that came with it is pretuned for my app. even has a sticker over it that says not street legal if removed.</TD></TR></TABLE>

sounds boosted to me, dont know many N/A cars that run intercoolers maybe gay front mount intakes......

mike93eh

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PRcivicHB &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">bluish black smoke and black soot?

Have you checked your compression?

Did you change the head gasket when u did the mini me?

Is this one boosted too or is it running N/A right now?
The blue box tends to run it a lil rich...</TD></TR></TABLE>

compression and leakdown good.
yes i change the headgasket whenever the head comes off.
yes im boosted running the stock 5psi on the greddy kit with the pretuned e-mange that came with it.
dont have a blue box.

let me start this over for you all:

i have a d16z6 block with a d16y8 head on it. im concerned it is causing me problems. it runs good but im getting headlift from it. thinking its something to do with the y8 heads timing. because i have a brand new oem headgasket and arp studs torqued to 65 lbs. and the head is not warped.

okay now.. i know the d16y8 engines stock timing is 12 degrees btdc and pretty much the rest of honda engines are 16 degrees btdc. i also know that the woodruff keyway on the y8 cam gear is offset a few degrees when compared to the z6 cam gear.

i set my timing to 16 degrees btdc with a z6block/y8 head and p28 ecu. is this right? is it bad? could it be causing my problems? why is it that the cam timing is slightly different between the z6 and y8?

on my last setup... i put a y8 head on a d15b7 block and within 2 minutes of driving it, the rod snapped in half. probably from oil starvation caused probably by timing?? see where im getting at?

i have plenty of experience with headlifting, etc. whatever causes the coolant to overflow from the resevoir so i know im doing it everything to fix that. ie. checked head and block, oem hg, arp studs, etc. so why is it right after i got everything put together with the z6 block and y8 head im running now. the coolant starts overflowing. i have checked everything and i know its doing it because compression is getting into the coolant passages. i just have a bad feeling this head doesnt belong on a z6 block with a p28 ecu. ive never even heard of someone using a y8 head on a z6 block. no one from here is chiming in either. guess ill have to take a huge loss (head has already been rebuilt) and find a z6 head.

thanks for any help guys.

EF HATER

d series.org

PRcivicHB

why the cam timing is different i have no idea... Have you tried going a lil closer to 12btdc...

you said one is 12 and the other is 16... you have it at 16, try, 15, then 14, then 13, then 12... see if it improves.... does it feel like it lost power at all?

MR_EJ8

Bump, i hope you get this **** figured out man! Im in the same position but i havent put the two together yet i have a Y8 in my sol but i was planning on using a built Z6 block...Maybe ill be changing my plans if no one can figure this out.

Sonictronic

I put a y8 head on a B7 block. I am having problems with that damn coolant overflow as well as detonation, and im running 93 octane to combat that at the moment. I never knew about the 4 degrees of cam timing tho, Ill get out the timing light and set it at 16 and ~12 tonight if i get a chance before work at 445, if it helps ill post up.

MrTodd

I used to have a Y8 head bolted up to a Z6 block on my old CRX... OBD-1 P28 also.

The Y8 cam gear is indeed timed differently than the Z6 gear - why? I'm sure it has to do with the difference in cam profile.. I think that Honda really wanted the Y8 to have more midrange/low end power over the previous Z6 design, which resulted in several changes: Intake manifold design (large plenum), swirl promoting intake porting, increased quench area in the combustion chamber, more aggressive camshaft profile with moderately advanced timing... You get the idea.

SO - if you want the Y8 to run like it was designed to, keep the OEM Y8 cam gear on! There shouldn't be any need to advance or retard the camshaft timing since your e-manage cannot adjust the ECU's preset fuel/timing maps.

Ignition timing - Since your application is far from stock, don't worry about stock ignition timing figures. You need to figure out what is best for YOUR setup. Drive your car around town, try to listen for detonation - adjust the ignition timing accordingly.

Now, as for the smoke coming from your tailpipe, it just sounds like it's running pretty rich. Have you checked the plugs? If those look normal or dark, then you should be okay. It wouldn't surprize me that Greddy would pretune the e-manage to run on the rich side - mostly just to keep the engine safe. You could try lowering the fuel pressure a little bit, but I think you're pretty much stuck pumping out tons of black carbon from the tailpipe given your choice of a turbo setup. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, you'll just have worse gas mileage, and you might be destroying your catalytic converter, along with all of the gunk being built up in your intake manifold and exhaust.


The coolant problem may be coming from the fact that you are turbo'd. Also, there is a chance that your choice of OEM headgasket may not be sealing perfectly between the Y8 and Z6 mating surfaces. I had coolant issues with my old Y8/Z6 setup, after I head the head resurfaced and put on another new headgasket, they might have went away, but I was never sure. If you really want to solve the overflow problem, you might want to go get the block o-ringed, and slap on a full copper headgasket.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mike93eh &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i just have a bad feeling this head doesnt belong on a z6 block</TD></TR></TABLE>

You know, for the most part that 'feeling' is right. I never could fix all the problems my y8/z6 setup gave me, and the other people I know that used a Y8 mini-me setup had several of the same issues I had. The truth is, you would be EXTREMELY lucky if you didn't have any problems with your setup! So relatively speaking, your setup sounds like it's running pretty damn good. The only real problem I see is the coolant overflow, try to research that topic specifically and see if you come up with any more helpful info... Good luck!

mike93eh

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MrTodd &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I used to have a Y8 head bolted up to a Z6 block on my old CRX... OBD-1 P28 also.

The Y8 cam gear is indeed timed differently than the Z6 gear - why? I'm sure it has to do with the difference in cam profile.. I think that Honda really wanted the Y8 to have more midrange/low end power over the previous Z6 design, which resulted in several changes: Intake manifold design (large plenum), swirl promoting intake porting, increased quench area in the combustion chamber, more aggressive camshaft profile with moderately advanced timing... You get the idea.

SO - if you want the Y8 to run like it was designed to, keep the OEM Y8 cam gear on! There shouldn't be any need to advance or retard the camshaft timing since your e-manage cannot adjust the ECU's preset fuel/timing maps.

Ignition timing - Since your application is far from stock, don't worry about stock ignition timing figures. You need to figure out what is best for YOUR setup. Drive your car around town, try to listen for detonation - adjust the ignition timing accordingly.

Now, as for the smoke coming from your tailpipe, it just sounds like it's running pretty rich. Have you checked the plugs? If those look normal or dark, then you should be okay. It wouldn't surprize me that Greddy would pretune the e-manage to run on the rich side - mostly just to keep the engine safe. You could try lowering the fuel pressure a little bit, but I think you're pretty much stuck pumping out tons of black carbon from the tailpipe given your choice of a turbo setup. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, you'll just have worse gas mileage, and you might be destroying your catalytic converter, along with all of the gunk being built up in your intake manifold and exhaust.


The coolant problem may be coming from the fact that you are turbo'd. Also, there is a chance that your choice of OEM headgasket may not be sealing perfectly between the Y8 and Z6 mating surfaces. I had coolant issues with my old Y8/Z6 setup, after I head the head resurfaced and put on another new headgasket, they might have went away, but I was never sure. If you really want to solve the overflow problem, you might want to go get the block o-ringed, and slap on a full copper headgasket.

You know, for the most part that 'feeling' is right. I never could fix all the problems my y8/z6 setup gave me, and the other people I know that used a Y8 mini-me setup had several of the same issues I had. The truth is, you would be EXTREMELY lucky if you didn't have any problems with your setup! So relatively speaking, your setup sounds like it's running pretty damn good. The only real problem I see is the coolant overflow, try to research that topic specifically and see if you come up with any more helpful info... Good luck!</TD></TR></TABLE>

now thats what im talking about, thanks!

my plugs look good, they are a nice tan color. so the smoke i guess is just normal high rpm vtec smoke because basically everything is new on this engine, and i mean everything...

when i took the head off, a couple of the arp head stud nuts were loose, wtf? i know for a fact i torqued them twice to 65 lbs. and there was only a few miles on it since i torqued them. so im hoping that was my problem. im putting a brand new headgasket with copper spray on it tonight and hope my coolant overflow problem is fixed. if not, im gonna say screw this pos head and take a big loss and find a z6 head.

still trying to figure out why my boosted b7/y8 blew up within 2 minutes of driving it, when it ran perfect when it was just a complete b7.

drewbie

only thing really to worry about is obd -II