KSE

I have a 97 civic ex lowered with omnipower full coilovers, camber kits all the way around.

Got an alignment at Firestone today. The guy that worked on my car was in a bad mood or something and I think it shows in his work.

The results:

Left Front: (0.0 Camber) (2.4 Caster) (-0.01 Toe)
Right Front (0.0 Camber) (1.1 Caster) (-0.01 Toe)
Front Total (-0.1 Cross Camber) (1.4 Cross Caster) (-0.01 Total Toe)

Left Rear: (-0.5 Camber) (-0.02 Toe)
Right Rear: (-0.7 Camber) (0.00 Toe)

Total Rear Toe: (-0.02) Thrust Angle (-0.2)


Are these values acceptable?

Once I saw him working on the car I went outside to watch and he told me the rear wheels were fine. We got into a semi-argument about that Im paying for a 4 wheel alignment and he's not touching the rear wheels. He said that the values were close enough and that he couldnt dial it in any closer to specs.

Feeling like I was about to spend my money for half-*** work, I asked to have my car back and he said theyd still charge me becuase they brought the car up. So i gave up and let him proceed. We patched things up midway through, but I am not happy with these readings. Some of them seem to be out of spec.

Are these values ok for a 97 civic ex or do I have something to be upset about? He said this is the best he can do for my car.

KSE

Oh and I realized after I came home, On th printout he gave me, it says 96-97 Honda ACCORD! Is the accords specs the same as a civic's because it seems thats what he went by.

Ya@inlinePRO

how low was your car?

Xxcivic99xX

yuh the alignment for accords and civics are the same

MasterKwan

Well, the caster looks bad. I'd want both sides to be the same and 1 degree +-.

POE

u need to ask for that dudes manager, and if he says no, call them up and talk to the supervisor over the phone, that sounds like bullshit.

5w20

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KSE &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have a 97 civic ex lowered with omnipower full coilovers, camber kits all the way around.

Got an alignment at Firestone today. The guy that worked on my car was in a bad mood or something and I think it shows in his work.

The results:

Left Front: (0.0 Camber) (2.4 Caster) (-0.01 Toe) suppose to have + degrees
Right Front (0.0 Camber) (1.1 Caster) (-0.01 Toe)
Front Total (-0.1 Cross Camber) really good (1.4 Cross Caster)really bad and should cause car to pull if tires are in "GOOD" condition (-0.01 Total Toe)

Left Rear: (-0.5 Camber) (-0.02 Toe)
Right Rear: (-0.7 Camber) (0.00 Toe) suppose to have positive toe degrees

Total Rear Toe: (-0.02) not too bad Thrust Angle (-0.2) should be 0.0 or 0.1


Are these values acceptable? no

Once I saw him working on the car I went outside to watch and he told me the rear wheels were fine. We got into a semi-argument about that Im paying for a 4 wheel alignment and he's not touching the rear wheels. He said that the values were close enough and that he couldnt dial it in any closer to specs.

Feeling like I was about to spend my money for half-*** work, I asked to have my car back and he said theyd still charge me becuase they brought the car up. So i gave up and let him proceed. We patched things up midway through, but I am not happy with these readings. Some of them seem to be out of spec (correct).

Are these values ok for a 97 civic ex or do I have something to be upset about? He said this is the best he can do for my car. </TD></TR></TABLE>


I don't think that Civic and Accord alignment specs are the same. Thats a lot of cross caster which should make it pull if the tires are in good condition (not running on a bad alignment for a while).

EDIT: I'll see if i can get the specs tomorrow out of the service manual.

MasterKwan

I was looking at the Teg specs. They're ok IF the Teg and Civic have the same specs. The castor was the only thing that stood out. If you use the moving balljoint type camber adjusters, I'd think you need to loosen it and try to change the caster to be in spec. If you have the eccentric upper A arm type, I'd think one adjuster is ahead of the other thowing off the castor.

suspendedHatch

Actually those alignment readings are fine. If its in spec they wont touch it. Caster isn't adjustable unfortunately unless you get a special kit that does camber and caster. It sucks that he zeroed out the camber but that's what they do unless you tell them otherwise. Next time tell them give you around -1.3 on the front, just under -1 for the rear. Much better for performance. He could have evened out the camber on the rear a little more, but then he'd have to redo the toe, and I can see why he didn't bother. It's not enough to matter.

Alignment guys always think they know everything and they wont hear a damn word you say. If you go to a place that does cross weights and performance alignments, that's different. They'll make the extra effort and put those $$$ machines to good use and get everything even side to side. That kind of alignment is very different from spec. Alot more camber and some toe. I do my own alignments with strings, homemade slip plates and a gauge.

milton

how low is ur vehicle?

RYAN_SJ

SD350z

your rears are actually in spec..i wouldnt give them too much grief for it. You're not gonna feel any difference at all in performance. I'd worry about the front more. I got the SPC control arms, and that allows you to adjust caster as well.... if you just have the reg camber kits, they're not gonna be able to adjust anything cept toe and camber. good luck

MasterKwan

Castor isn't settable on a STOCK suspension. He has a camber adjustable front suspension. Depending on the design he bought, the caster CAN be tweaked by loosening the adjusters and moving either the control arm OR the balljoint around.

KSE

Thanks for the replies. My car is not lowered much at all, 2in in the front and 1.5in the back is my guess. I put on brand new tires right before I went to get the alignment.

The car does pull slightly to the right and I think its because of the caster like you guys mentioned.
I'm not very familiar with caster but my front camber kits are ominpower adjustable A-arms and there is no side to side motion on the ball joint plate that I can see. Is there any other way to adjust caster? I was under the impression that caster wasnt adjustable on civics and shouldnt change when you lower a car.

Ill also make a trip back to Firestone and talk to a manager to get a clear explanation about the results and see if he'll stand behind them.

97civicdx

Those numbers are within spec

5w20

Caster is adjustable on the stock suspension but it only is adjustable to a certain point. We adjust it by loosening the subframe and prying on it with pry bars then tightening it back up.

Jago

No caster adjustment on honda's they don't have it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MasterKwan

According the a Civic manual I just "Found" Caster is +1degree +-1 degree That means it ranges from 0-2 degrees.

I'm not sure how you can say 2.4 degrees is within spec. If BOTH sides were 2.4 then I wouldn't worry much about it. One side is 1.3 degrees off the other, caster affects the "centering" effect of the wheel, how much the wheel tries to return to center after it's turned. He has one side doing more than the other.

It says as much in the results. "With good tires the cross caster will cause pulling".

Assuming that there's no adjustment available, it means something is bent or out of position. Maybe it doesn't matter but, I'd look into it if it was me.

97civicdx

Sears printout for 96-00 Civic:

Front Camber spec: -1.00 to 1.00
Front Caster .67 to 2.67
Front Toe -.04 to .12

Rear Camber: -2.00 to .00
Rear Toe: .04 to .16

Front Total Toe -.08 to .24
Rear Total Toe: .08 to .32

Sliced Beard

I GUARANTEE that your front wheels are not sitting in the center of your wheel wells.....

I am willing to bet that your lower control arms are bent or you upper control arms are bent

5w20

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jago &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No caster adjustment on honda's they don't have it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes there is, its called a beam shift.

MasterKwan

97Civic, do you believe Sears or Honda? I'd say all that matters is what Honda says.

Moving the subframe's a good idea. I hadn't thought of it before. Thanks.

97civicdx

Kwan:
If you read it, it says a range. Im sure if you look at the Honda spec's, the range falls within it.
List the "Honda Spec's" if you want to.

KSE

Well, I went to a body shop and they looked at my car for free and say that my right front wheel is 3/4 to 1 inch too far back in my wheel well.

They want $150 to fix it. Is this something that I can do on my own because that seems like a lot of money or is that reasonable?

KSE

I got the wheel pulled and realigned. Here are my new results:

FRONT
------------------
LEFT::: (+2.2 Caster) (+0.0 Camber) (+0.05 Toe)
RIGHT: (+2.1 Caster) (+0.2 Camber) (+0.05 Toe) (+0.1 Cross Caster)


REAR
------------------ -------------------------------------------
Left::::: (-0.7 Camber) (+0.10 Toe)
Right: (-0.3 Camber) (+0.10 Toe)


I am really frustrated with alignment shops. I nicely explained how to adjust the camber kits, provided him with the allan wrench and they still cannot do it the same on both sides. Even the rear which has the simple links it is not the same. I mean what the hell?!?!

And to top it off one of my clips on my front wheel cover is broken off.


QUESTION: Can I adjust the camber myself for the front and rear without it affecting the caster and toe values???