redm3turbo

My cousin has a 99 civic with an auto transmission that is shifting hard, it still works but it revs pretty high and then slams into gear a bit. So I said, Id drop the pan and change the filter, only to find out...there is no filter

So while i was talking, My dad interjects that because the ATF in there has never been changed and has 160k...that we can't change the fluid. If we do, that it'll ruin the transmission---- that he went to have a cars auto tranny fluid changed a few years ago and the shop he took it to told him they refused to service a tranny that hasn't been serviced, because the thought is, that the old fluid is now creating friction on the parts, and keeping them working....and new ATF fluid and its detergents would just wear it away quickly and then the tranny would go.

So---I asked a transmission specialist that I know that works at a dealer if that was true, and his answer was no----I've never heard of that, and that when you drain the tranny without a flush, your only losing 4 quarts or so, and new fluid will not hurt it in anyway.

Then my neighbor 2 doors down (With a 1987 Chevy Blazer K5) dropped the fluid in his truck, and a week later was outside dropping his tranny because it blew. He didnt say it was directly related to the fluid change, However....His trans did go, so, maybe.

Since, Ive asked 2 more ASE mechanics, and 1 said, its fine, and the other said....not to, just run it like it is.

So.............if I drop the bolt, and let 3-4 quarts runs out, and I refill it....will it destroy the trans? Or will it help with the hard shifting?

I almost feel like this rule applies to old domestics, and not so much newer imports... but I really have no idea.


THoughts? Experience?

THanks in advance

NVturbo

On a Honda automatic transmission, there are no filters. Try replacing the ATF fluids to see if that resolves the issue. It takes about 2.5Q if I'm not mistaken. If that doesn't work then it's time to swap out that transmission.

98ekb16

From anything I've heard if you're only changing what is in the pan you should be ok. If you go somewhere and have a transmission flush done where they hook it to a machine and flush out all of the old fluid then your tranny will most likely blow.

redm3turbo

Thats what my ASE trans specialist friend said....changing the stuff in the pan isnt going to bother anything.


Eh, I guess Ill go crawl under this thing and give it a shot. I already found a junkyard with 6 in stock about 20 mins from me, all for under $300... Id REALLY rather not do a trans replacement though, lol.

redm3turbo

The only saving grace with trannys on hondas...I can pick em up with 1 hand, lol.....

Former User

Drain and refill the transmission once a month for three months. Use only Honda or Honda recommended ATF. Clean any debris stuck to the drain bolt after each ATF drain.

redm3turbo

Thanks RonJ

I did it this morning---drained it...and ended up wearing 1/2 a bottle....good times-
Ive taken 2x showers already...god I hate the smell of ATF.

Anyhow, I planned to do it another time...however, Ill do it 3 times instead.

After I drained it this morning....I read to refill the trans until "the funnel backed up" so I did... and then I took her a quick ride, that ended up being about 25 mins because they closed a road for the parade, and I had to zig zag around to get home...

Seems better already- I figured by doing it 2x or more, Id end up getting most if not all the atf out, and change it all over time.

Seems like a mistake that Honda didnt just include a filter on this car...
Id much rather change a filter every 30k and be done with it..... However, changing the fluid every 30k is cheaper/easier/faster.....guess I just like the filters...

Former User

Be sure to only fill the transmission to the upper mark on the dipstick.

redm3turbo

Lol....guess I wont fill it til it overflows next time then....

What do people reco as honda auto trans fluid?

I have about 1 and 1/3 left over (honda genuine) should I buy another case? or is there something I can use - especially for the flushes? I like to use Gen honda stuff, however if Im only using it as a flush, Id prefer not to use the stuff that costs 9/ quart...lol.

Former User

I recover 2.5-3.0 quarts from a drain.

I use (Honda-recommended) Valvoline Max Life Dex/Merc ATF, which I can find for $3-$4/quart.

Avoid flushing the transmission. Only do drain and refill cycles.

redm3turbo

Do I have to necessarily wait a month before doing the drain/refill cycles?
If I drive it 50 miles a day, 5x a week, could I drop the ATF in say a week, or 10 days?

When I did it, I noticed that the drain plug was just COVERED in what almost appeared to be pencil lead.... Covered to the point it was like if I dipped it into a jar of silver peanut butter...

I cleaned her off, then cleaned it again....and reinstalled it. When she went back into the trans, it was as clean as new.

I filtered the drained trans fluid through a little screen that I had, and a funnel into a gallon ice tea container. I noticed two chunks of metal....one about the size of a half of a dime, and rusted to hell.

I honestly dont 100% remember if I made sure to clean the drain tub that I have. Its currently 95+ degrees in NY, and I had to do the drain laying in apartment complex parking lot so I wasn't exactly sure if I made sure to clean my drain pan out prior to dropping the fluid. It appeared to be sludge in it, however the pain is also used for oil, so it could be that.

Either way....the baby shifts like butter...as long as Im going faster- like say getting onto the highway, and not flooring it, but going faster.

If Im going through town, and just slowly getting to 30-40, it still shifts a bit hard.

Its also now roughly going into R...but all other gears are fine.

So, any ideas? about why its so rough going into R, yet no other gears...and why its shifting hard at low speeds, not higher ones?

And can I speed up my drain/refills? lol. Is 300 miles enough to drop it again? or should I wait til 1000 or more? like a month

94EG8

If you've got a car with no transmission problems that hasn't had the fluid changed in a long time or ever, it probably wont hurt it provided you don't flush it (don't ever flush a honda tranny either way, there is a filter buried in them, more of a screen really and power flushing it will blow the junk trapped in the filter all through the transmission where it will plug up oil passages in the valve body) If you try changing the fluid on a transmission that is having transmission problems, chances are a lot better that it will die soon after.

redm3turbo

Too late....lol.

It was shifting hard, and I figured if its going....Id rather pay for a few flushes..then a new tranny, at least as a starting point.

I already found a replacement trans...from a junker with a 1 year warranty...and am all ready to go if need be to swap her out, but like I said...its 5 mins to flush the fluid, and maybe it'd take away the hard shifts.

My buddy has an 98 accord, thats trans was WAY worse then this one and had 198k on it, with orig fluid....drained it once, refilled it....50k miles later....still running A+

Former User

With the miles you drive, you could probably do a drain/refill every few days. Hopefully, the metal debris will greatly lessen by the second drain/refill. If not, continue the cycles until the debris greatly lessens. Good luck.

EGgmannate81

I work at a Honda dealership and we wont change tranny fluid if its really nasty. Your dad is right for some reason the gunk or whatever in the tranny hold everything together or something. Everytime we have changed really nasty tranny fluid on a car with over 50k or so miles it developed tranny problems within the 1st three months of changing it. GL

redm3turbo

Eh, I wonder if it'll go...

I figure its not good the way it is...so even if it goes, its not a huge deal, Id have to change it regardless.

Im going to do the drain / refill on friday...after about 200 miles more... see what comes out.

Ill let everyone know how it goes.....then if nothing, we can have a concise answer of whether or not its ok...or not.

Darn it...I shouldve took pictures of the crap that come out the first time...

98civdx

I'll be awaiting the update.

I know I should do mine, but I am nervous... Dad's friend lost 2 transmissions after changing the fluid. Granted they weren't Honda's, but none the less it happened.

redm3turbo

98civdx----

did they happen to be older domestics? like late 80's/early 90's....?

Just curious. All the trans that have went that I know of personally were older chevys...
dunno if its a chevy only thing, or not.

A guy I know who's a ASE master chevy tech said....he thought that it wasnt chevy based, however, he said....all that would happen was if the trans was on the way out, it'd speed up the process...

Lol...I hope it doesnt apply to hondas...especially since Im going to drive it 100 miles in the morning.

98civdx

They will both Chev's. One I believe I was early 80's, and the other was a late 90's. Both will over 150k. This is just what my dad told me.

I was told by him (dad's friend) that it could happen to any car.

Actually now that I remember, my brother's 90 mustang (5.0 HO,auto) suffers from trans issues. Not sure what it is. But my dad took it into a shop to have the drain/refill or flush and they advised him against doing it.

I hope Honda's don't suffer from that problem, but if it happens, it happens I guess. Better reason to go 5spd?
My fluid isn't black or supper gunky or anything, but I think it's overfilled a little, and i have no clue when it was changed, if ever. 200+k on it now.

redm3turbo

98civdx- yea, all the trans that have went on people I know personally...were chevy products. One of my buddies said it best today - the people that did it, and had their trans blow though, I have no clue if they put in good atf, whats reco'd for the car, or just some cheapo walmart crap, or....whats actually called for by the vehicle.

I used gen honda atf when I changed mine---which I assume was what was in there, since I am fairly certain it had 160k original miles on it.

Well, the fluid that was in the car....was burnt...badly in this one. When I dropped the plug...the smell was horrible. The plug itself had a lot of buildup on it. I mean...if you know what anti-seize looks like - the silver goop that you put on bolts....that was exactly what it looked like when I took the plug out. (took 2 shop towels to get it all off.)

Anyhow....Today logged 120 miles on it....and I think its getting smoother and smoother. I didnt hardly notice it at all today....The ride home was even better, no hard shifts, nothing.

Ill keep updating this post (incase anyone else wants the information as well.)

By saturday I will have in the arena of 800 miles on the car since the first change, and I will drain it again. I really wanted to do 1000 mile increments, but, I really dont have time during the week- plus I got to give the car back to my cousin...so it is what it is.

So far....so good though. Today it was as good as new.

98civdx

I've got no clue what fluid was put into the cars, or the trans that was in it. I could possibly find out tonight though. I'll be heading out to another one of my dad's good friend's house to drop off a Camaro. I could ask him what he thinks then.

Hmm, yea mine has been shifting a weird every once in a while. Some times hard, sometimes it seemed like the engine would rev when it shifted.

I just assumed it was the trans getting old, and acting up.

Good luck, I hope everything turns out good! I will definitely be patiently waiting for an update.

SnoFox4

I had a Camry with 220K and no fluid change, yeah it shifted hard.. but it still shifted. It's all up to you to take the risk, but for $300 I wouldn't worry too much.. just run the one you have until it starts slipping.

slammed4dreg

NEW TRANNY FTL

redm3turbo

So a little update...

Drained the trans fluid again....roughly 750 miles after the first drain and fill...

Plug was clean as a whistle....dirty ATF came out....smelt burnt...not as burnt as the first batch I removed.

Refilled her.... shifting issues all but are gone. Im going to wait like a month before I drain/fill it again. Im afraid I didnt get enough miles on her, because its 90% highway miles I drive, so not a lot of shifting.

The 2 drain/fills however have made all accounts of any hard/harsh shifting completely unnoticeable. Shes shifting nice and smooth now...It even took away the hard to shift into reverse....all gone.

Ill update this again....if it blows up....lol, or when I drop it for a 3rd time....after which I plan on letting it run for 20-30k miles before touching it again.

95EG2

very bad idea... i knew someone that changed his fluid at 100,000 mile and he never changed and his trans never shifted again