B18C5-EH2

I've posted a topic about this before, but this time I've got better proof. I see every saying that the 99-00 Si tranny has the same gearing as USDM Type R trannies, and has a 4.400 FD. I've seen this too in magazines, but here's some real-world proof. Import Auto Salvage had torn apart 4 of the 99-00 Si trannies and found the following:

99-00 Civic Si:

1st: 3.230
2nd: 2.105
3rd: 1.458
4th: 1.107
5th: .875

Final: 4.26

1997-1998; 200-2001 Integra Type R (USDM)

1st: 3.230
2nd: 2.105
3rd: 1.458
4th: 1.107
5th: .848

Final: 4.400

The bold reflects why the rpms at a given speed in 5th will be the same on the ITR and the 99-00 Civic Si. Longer FD for the Si, but shorter 5th gear.

Now perhaps the 99-00 has 2 different trannies with different final drives: MAYBE some came with the 4.400, but how can IAS get 4 with a 4.26 then?

Try this: if you have a 99-00 Si, or have a B16A2 from one with the 99-00 Si tranny, cruise in 2nd gear doing 30mph. Now do the same in a ITR or a B18C5 swap with the USDM ITR tranny. I'll bet it's a different RPM.

Perhaps if the 99-00 came with either 4.400 or 4.26, that explains why some are slower than others even in stock form. The 4.400 would make a big difference all around over the 4.26!


[Modified by B18C5-EH2, 1:50 PM 2/19/2002]

vtecvoodoo

tubular

VTC_CiViC

Has anybody ever noticed more than one tranny code on Si's?

B18C5-EH2

Tranny code might help, but not likely.

The USDM Integra is a prime example. S80 could be the LS, GS-R, or even Type R tranny! Those trannies are NOTHING alike, yet they all have the same code? Honda does some weird stuff.

VTC_CiViC

I'm curious to know now, does the YS1 in my 93 GS-R have a .440 FD or a .426? I know it has a .88 5th, but I can't say about the FD.

B18C5-EH2

Well, I'd say check various websites, but even THEY are wrong too - thus adding to the confusion.

How could all the sites and magazines be WRONG? It's very strange...

Anybody else?


[Modified by B18C5-EH2, 3:18 PM 2/19/2002]

WAFFLES

I remember seeing a post where someone said he had a factory manual/brocure(something like that) from Honda that said the Si had a 4.4

However, even Katman said on his site that he tore the tranny open and counted the teeth and got a 4.26....

this is all very strange indeed.

Trey

4.26 is in the 99-00 Civic Helms.

I've heard of Helms sending out updates that it was a 4.4 but I saw the service manual at Honda Carland a month ago.......

M12

Interesting stuff....anyways I just wanted to throw this link in that i found while searching through the forums.
http://www.autocrossing.com/cgi-bin/gearcalc.cgi

I used the data from the ITR gearing and the supposed 99-00Si gearing and here is what it looks like with the ITR ones on the left and supposed Si on the right.

Gear Speed @ 8000 RPM
1st 38.2 39.4
2nd 58.6 60.5
3rd 84.6 87.4
4th 111.4 115.1
5th 145.4 145.6

In the first few gears, it would be hard for someone to find out their exact RPM in second gear@30mph because i would think that the ITR and SI would be almost at the same RPM even with the different gearing.



[Modified by M12, 1:23 PM 2/19/2002]

nwdave

Interesting FYI: A del Sol VTEC's FD is 4.40.

B18C5-EH2

So really a 3rd or even 4th gear cruise would tell you better than the 2nd gear pull then

M12

B18C5-EH2

Actually I kind of pointed out the FD thing to Katman long ago when his site used to just say "4.400" - now it says "it's debatable..."

IAS found 4 4.26 FDs - FF found 1 4.400 - tough call?

I say it could have either.

YodaIsGod

please don't tell me i have to open my tranny up to make sure i have the 4.400 FD?!?!?!

Maybe i'll get the JDM FD 4.75 instead.

MrFatBooty

Hmm...my '92 GSR did around 4600 @ 80 mph in 5th. What do you Si guys turn over at 80 mph?

Gump

iTrader: (1)

in fifth i'm usually at 4500-4700 at 80

B18C5-EH2

The bad thing is guys, just like with the ITR and Si tranny comparison, 5th gear cruising RPMs won't tell you the FD because 5th gear could be shorter like on the 99-00 Si

4th gear at say, 60mph would be a better comparison I think. I have found that the 92-93 GS-R tranny isn't as short as the gearcharts I've seen on them claim to be. I have a co-worker with a 1992 GS-R tranny in his 1990 Hatch - it kind of takes longer than expected to push through the gears.

He has a grind, so it will be coming apart soon for a rebuild - time to COUNT TEETH!

I'll be able to tell you guys for SURE about the 92-93 GS-R YS1 then.

So anybody ever tear one apart yourself and count the teeth? 99-00 Si tranny? Others?

YodaIsGod

wouldn't engine displacement effect RPMs between the Si and the ITR? just a thought.

M12

i dont think so. It effects the power band though. no torque Si.

Phantom

no and no. neither displacement or "power band" (whatever that is) are affected by the tranny, the tranny only regulates how torque is put to the wheels through the "size" of the gears

Phantom

I've heard from a few sources of SI's with the 4.26FD, I believe at least some, possibly all are 4.26

MrFatBooty

I thought the '92-'93 GSR and '99-'00 Si both supposedly have a 0.875 5th. So if 5th is the same ratio and the cruising RPMs are the same, wouldn't that mean that the FD is the same?


[Modified by MrFatBooty, 5:12 PM 2/20/2002]

M12

~4300 RPMS in 4th gear @ 60 MPH in my Si.


[Modified by M12, 11:27 AM 2/20/2002]

jonas

dude you guys need 96+ DX trannies.. 70 mph in 2nd gear with no problems

FifthGearOnline

hey now dont be dissin DX's all you guys are jellous cuz DX'ers get 30mpg