Matthew98DX

Its time to swap out my tranny and engine.
I have a stock d16y7 in my 98 honda civic dx hatch, engine has about had it, reaching about 200,000 miles.
I'm looking to do a swap, don't know what to put in it.
Looking for better hp.
Tranny and Engine have to be AUTOMATIC.
I've heard b18 is a good engine to put swap
What are some ideas?

ek9_beast

Your question has soooo many answers and if I was u I'd search the net for what motor setup suits your needs cuz these guys are gonna come in here flaming

Matthew98DX

I'm just new to the Honda swap game. Just needing some pointers from people who know what to do. I've been looking on the internet, for engine swap info too

ek9_beast

Good luck buddy, I advocate built d-series so swaps aren't something I know too much about or I'd be more than willing to help.

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

You're not getting a B-series automatic into one of these.

angrysmileyface

Your options are basically a D16 AKA D16Z6 (ODB1), D16y7 or D16y8 (OBDII) or a D15 (OBD1) if you wish to retain the slushbox. Most people seeking power go manual.

ek9_beast

Basically the simplest thing to do is replace what you have with a low mile replacement if you're staying auto and forget the swap. Autos and performance in the same sentence with Hondas is uncommon especially with you're exact car/motor there are no good tuning options as ur ecu is non-programmable and it doesn't seem like u want to get into that aspect anyway.

Matthew98DX

So you think I should stay in the D series range?
Which one of these have the best hp?

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

The other problem you're going to run into is the engine/transmission combination, in regards to your ECU selection. You need to use an ECU that matches your transmission, because the TCU is integrated into the ECU. That means that if you want to swap to a Y8 (96-00 EX engine), you would also have to swap to a 96-00 EX transmission, as well as the 96-00 ECU. Going to a 5G engine might also be a bit hairy, with the OBD1 to OBD2 difference.

If you want the best power, you'll need to go to a standard transmission. Within your requirements, the best option would be a complete D16Y8 swap.

ek9_beast

The easiest route to go is d16y8 and trans. You'll be able to keep it all the way it is as far as passing emissions and staying obd2 for inspection. Its a straight drop in, grab the y8 ecu, wire vtec and a knock sensor and you'll then have close to 127hp and vtec as opposed to your 106hp non vtec.

ek9_beast

Also if you get a 96-98 y8 motor, trans and ecu u don't have to change ur engine harness. Just wire in vtec and knock sensor and stay obd2a. Cheap hp

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

I'm starting to sense an echo...

Also, those numbers are a bit disingenuous. First off, power is lost over the years. What was once originally a 127 BHP engine back in '98, is now more likely to be a 100 BHP engine in 2014. We're talking the better part of two decades of wear and tear. Second off, drivetrain loss from an automatic is horrible, and torque multiplication from a 4 speed of any sort is complete garbage. The difference between the two engines will be negligible. After losses, you're looking at maybe a 10 WHP gain. Maybe.

Realistic advice is this. Is your only reason for wanting to swap engines the fact that it has 200k miles on it? If that's it, leave it be. With proper maintenance and care, you can get another 200k out of that same engine. Even if you did swap in another motor, how many miles do you think that one will have on it? Same stands true for the slushbox. Unless you're prepared to completely overhaul both the replacement motor and transmission, you're putting a good bit of time, effort, and money into replacing a 200k motor/transmission with what, a 160k motor/transmission? Put it in perspective, and make sure that minimal difference will be worth your time, money, and effort.

ek9_beast

What a dick this guy is. Were typing the same thing at the same time and his answer is special. Somehow cuz I gave the same answer now its not such a good way to go op. Wtf. Anyway I'm not telling u to do something as stupid as replace a worn out motor with a worn out motor. Get a low mileage replacement obviously. And his statement makes no sense cuz somehow the y8 lost hp at 160k but the y7 didn't at 200k. Get a low mileage y8 and be done with it since u wanna stay auto. Sry this guy wants to move off topic op. And 400k on a 97 auto good luck. Read up on that year auto trans it was junk outsourced to Mitsubishi.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

Echos are generally seen as a good thing in support forums. Two people saying the same thing, especially when one of those people has a history of being knowledgeable, gives it more credence than the babbling of someone with minimal history. There are enough real victims in the world without you playing the victim card. Life advice: No one likes people who constantly cry victim. Also, none of this is off topic. The OP asked for advice, and he is being given multiple sides of the die for him to choose from.

Now, here's some technical education. There are three types of losses/gains. Linear, exponential, and logarithmic. Linear is the easiest to understand. 1+1=2. 1+2=3. 1+3=4. Simple step functions. A prime example of this is in fuel injector sizing.



The X axis is desired BHP from 100-300, and the Y axis is required injector size from 20 lb/hr per injector to 40 lb/her per injector, 4 injectors. The graph is linear, meaning that as you want more power, the required fuel flow increases linearly.

The second type is exponential. It's basically the opposite of logarithmic. I also can't think of anywhere in the car world that it directly applies. I'm sure there's an example of it, but it's not relevant, so I'll just leave it at that.

The third type is logarithmic. This is the important type for this discussion. I'll use the equation for value depreciation, since it's easier, but it also applies to power loss from age.



The X axis is the age of the car. The Y axis is the value. This graph assumes an original cost of $6000, and a depreciation of 30%. I pulled those numbers out of thin air, because they don't matter - what matters is how the graph reacts. The first year, 30% of the value is lost, meaning $1800. The second year, 30% of the new value is lost, which is a lesser $1260. Let's apply that to an engine's output over years.



The X axis is the age of the motor, ranging from 0 to 16. The Y axis is BHP, ranging from 90 to 127. The blue line represents a Y8, starting at 127 "fresh out of the box". The red line represents a Y7, starting at 106. The % loss assumed is only 5% per year, which applies fairly well. After any given number of years, the Y7 loses less power than the Y8, because, in layman's terms, it has less to lose. Parasitic drivetrain loss also applies in a logarithmic form.

The TL;DR of it is this. While the engines started with a 21 BHP difference, in the real, daily driver car world where we talk about WHP (and really should be talking about torque, but that's a whole different story), the difference between a 16 year old Y7, and a 16 year old Y8, is maybe 10 WHP, but probably less. If the total for parasitic loss and loss from age actually is 5% (unfortunately no one has data points to prove what it actually is), then you're talking a 2 WHP difference between the motors. 2. I sure as hell wouldn't swap a motor for 2 WHP.

ek9_beast

In other words get a 96-98 y8 fresh and you'll have a nice hp increase to your worn out y7. It could be swapped in less time than it would take to read this forum page. Just be sure you get a full swap which includes the motor, trans and ecu. If u stay between 96-98 u can reuse ur engine harness and wire in the vtec and knock sensor. You won't have any issues with ur state inspection, smog or whatever testing u may have to submit to. Fresh motor, automatic and decent power gain plus vtec.. Everything you're asking for op.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

One more misconception: The "low mileage" motor. Realistically, they don't exist. Engine importers claim all of their engines are "low mileage" based on a misreading of Shaken law, and assume (correctly, unfortunately) that the people buying those engines don't actually know what they're talking about. Japanese motors aren't "legally required" to be replaced after 35k, or 45k, or whatever lie an engine importer is feeding you. Then comes the issue of a "JDM" D16Y8. Considering that motor was only used in the US, Canada, and the UK...it isn't JDM. Are there JDM "equivalents"? Sure, but my previous point still stands.

If you want to buy an actual, veritably low-mileage D16Y7/Y8, good luck. One of two things is true for that engine. Either it's been sitting in a garage somewhere, not collecting miles, not being run, and just sitting there. Rubber has deteriorated. Seals are cracked and if they aren't leaking now, they will be soon. Roller bearings are done, and engine bearings have been sitting in one place long enough to have squeezed out any oil keeping them from making contact with the crank. None of these are good things. The second option is that it was rebuilt. Without a full bill of sale from a professional engine rebuilder, including parts used, you can't know if you have an engine that'll be good for another 200k, or an engine that was built by Joe Bob out behind the woodshed, with a lazy eye and no tools to measure clearances and tolerances. Would you really trust that in a car that you expect to get you to work, get your kids to school, get your wife to the doctor, or just get you up to the grocery store to feed yourself? I wouldn't.

Once again, the TL;DR - If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Matthew, if you are actually having problems with your motor, diagnose them and fix them. If you just want to replace your motor because it has 200k on the clock, don't. Hondas are resilient as ****. Scientists say cockroaches will survive the nuclear holocaust. I think when that time comes, those cockroaches would keep on driving 90's Hondas, if they could reach the pedals.

ek9_beast

I do agree with the "lies" of engine importers as they all have "60k or less" and are 14plus years old. So I recommend rebuilt motors over imported but you also gotta know who's rebuilt the motor and if they're reputable if you go that route cuz there's nothing like a factory motor built dead on to spec. The right motor is out there, you just gotta find it/build it

etnies

[QUOTE=NotARacist;50130144] in the real, daily driver car world where we talk about WHP (and really should be talking about torque, but that's a whole different story),QUOTE]

So what you're saying is that torque is the only important thing, yet you're all about hondas?

You herd him OP might as well go for a j32 swap!

oh and to go along with all your knowledge I have an acronym for you NotARacist.

VTEC: Very torqueless, economical car...

Dont get me wrong I love my honda and it's pretty damn fast, but you're a fucktard who constantly bashes people.
Try growing up and using your knowledge to actually help others rather than fighting with everyone

ek9_beast

[QUOTE=etnies;50130216]X2

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

Accuses people of derailing threads with relevant information, turns around and attacks someone without adding a single thing to the thread. Yep, you're gonna go far here.

etnies

whats a matter buddy? Did I strike a nerve?

Matthew98DX

the reason I am doing a swap is because my engine fucked up
it started making noises yesterday, i checked the oil dip stick, didn't have any oil barely, so I added 3qts oil

today, i drove my car and it started making worse noises, I was driving up a hill and I wasn't gaining any speed at all. my car cut off while I was driving up the hill. I don't know how to explain the sound. I can take a video tomorrow of the sound and upload it and you guys can determine what it might be .

I am being told I need a new head gasket & oil pump .
Yesterday I was told something a piston rod was broke?

ek9_beast

Read my entry, its number 15.. I think its your best route buddy

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

Rods don't really...break. At least, rarely on their own. It sounds like you might have spun a bearing, but that's neither here nor there. If your motor is done, it just comes down to how much you're looking to spend, and only you can answer that. If you want it running again cheaply, find a healthy replacement Y7 and call it a day. If you have the money to spend on a couple extra horses, a complete Y8 swap with engine, transmission, and ECU would work, but don't expect miracles - you aren't going to get 21 more usable, noticeable horsepower.

Matthew98DX

Really not worried about the HP, I just want my motor to be running again