forbiddenera

So,

I'm about to swap on the 96spec ITR 4x114.3 stuff onot my EH2 (EG) hatch.

I also need to do all my bushings. Have to do my compliance bushing like NOW so I thought I'd get the rest of the front bushings and swap the parts on.
Going with energy suspension for most of them, not sure about the rear trailing arm one though, heard/read there's better options? Not sure about the rear control arm stuff either. Also, the front lca bushing kit include the compliance bushing right?.

Car is currently dd/street but slowly being built for rally.

Getting a master kit doesn't make sense, I already have done the shifter bushings and if I got a Civic kit, it would have the wrong ones anyway (B series motor). As well, I don't have power steering and it comes with power steering bushings - I can't seem to find any for a manual rack? Or are they not needed? I have to double check my fsm.. I know there's the rack end bushing right?

My research shows that most of them match (based off master kits/packages for the three cars):
Front control arm bushings - 16.3105 - same part # for civ, teg and itr
Front shock mount bushings - 16.8102 - same part # for civ, teg and itr
Front end links - 16.8104 - same part # for civ, teg and itr
Steering Rack Bushings - 16.10102 for Civic/Integra w. Power Steering, can't find anything for without?
Shift stabilizer - 16.1101 for B series, 16.1102 for D series
Rear shock mount - 16.8103 - same part # for civ, teg and itr
Ball joint boots - 16.13101 - same for all 3
Tie rod boots - same for all three

Now for the rear control arms,

For civic,
Rear Control arm bushings - 16.3104

For integra
Rear Control Lower Arm Bushings - Doesn't Fit Type 'R' Models - 16.3109
(Why does this say 'lower' and civic doesn't, is there no upper? Or just not one included w integra kit?)

For ITR
Prothane 8317? No ES?

Itr info came from Energy Suspension Parts: Integra, acura integra type r 1997

Not sure if they consider a 97 a 5x114.3 or not. There was no 96 itr option on their site.

Tried searching on here ans on energy Suspensions actual site (link is just an online store) but the search system wouldn't load for me.

98civdx

Don't bother with ES. some love them, I had them and hate them. The ES "mater kit" is a joke. it includes a bunch of bullshit. You wont find a 96 option as they never existed here.

The trailing arm bushings don't matter. They are the same for all of them except for the DA's.

Buy this. The only guess work after that is which bushing goes where because PIC was too lazy to label them.

PIC Performance Blog

testify

Energy Suspension bushings are great.

Use an air hammer to remove the old bushings from the cast iron LCAs.

Installation of the new bushings isveff effortless.

98civdx

if you want ES, take a look a Prothane kit's instead. It's the same ****. Comes with more bushings.

Bushing Replacement Kit - Honda Civic - Prothane 82010

forbiddenera

I guess its not hell, I actually thought there'd me more differences until I started writing my post out.

Why does the ES kit say lower only for the rears though? Is there no upper bushings or does it just not come with them? Again, don't have my manual in hand atm.

Well, the ES kit didn't make sense like I said..don't need power steering or shifter and the rear lcas aRe diff between modes & i will eventually be using itr rta, duno about rear lcas thought, might get after market ones..so what are the differences to the rear suspension (and front too if there is any) on civic teg and itr? Besides sway bars & sway bar mounts of course. I'm sure there's a thread somewhere but I can't find it atm.

I ended up getting 16.3105 for 60 (canadian) locally because I need to fix my compliance bushing *now*, probably will grab 16.8102 and 16.8104 (front end links and shock mount bushings) tomorrow as well, but for anything else I'm open to suggestions. Will probably use hard race for the rta cuz I've read good things and read poly has a tendency to bind in that spot?

Cheers thanks again as always

testify

Most people buy adjustable rear UCAs because it is absolutely necessary to reduce rear camber when you lower these chassis.

Unless you're buying the cheapest rear UCAs on Earth, the should come with poly bushings already installed.

The only difference in the rear LCAs is bushing diameter, for the shock bushing, iirc.

Just get the RTA bushings and all front LCA bushings installed and you'll see the most significant improvement.

98civdx

Just my opinion here, but I wouldn't bother with the ES Master kit. Just piece it together or pony up for the Hard rubber kit.

Sounds like your taken care of though.

testify

The Hard Race kit is going to require lots of time swearing at a 20 ton press.

98civdx

Don't forget the beer.

exactly what I'm working on now.

testify

It wouldn't be hard if you have the proper dies and press tools.

But let's face it, none of us do.

We're all just using impact sockets and praying they don't explode and send shrapnel through our brains.

The press is cheap money, a proper set of press tools is big bucks.

chrysler kid

Urethane bushings bind under unequal lateral movement.

They bind, they don't have any give to them, ride and handle like ****. One of the worst modifications you can do to a car. If your car is track only, go for it. If you want to drive it on the street don't do it.

There's a reason why all brand new super cars still come with rubber bushings.

testify

I doubt there's too many people trying to DD an ITR these days.

tony_2018

I do.

forbiddenera

My car will eventually be track only, mostly gravel. And will never be lowered, maybe raised.

I'm willing to try the ES for now on the front as they're cheaper than anything else I can get locally and it's my DD for now and needs to work now.

Also I've read way more people (especially on honda sites) saying poly bushings made a huge difference. I imagine some of these people would have gotten an improvement with any new bushings let alone poly.l

If they handle like ****, why would I "go for it" if my car was track only? I'd rather a car that handles like **** on the street than on the track! lol

If it was, I'd be using hard rubber and pillow ***** where it counts.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

poly bushings. Why?

"Chryslerkid" was correct. They're junk. Its why they're cheap. And its why there aren't any factory built "track cars" that come with poly bushings. Their life expectancy is low. They ride like ****.

They're a good idea for a very cheaply built track car which you don't mind maintaining a lot.

Use rubber or spherical for RTA bushings. Poly is an even worse idea in this spot in particular.

There are engineered poly bushings that work. But their cost reflects what went into them. Energy and Prothane bushings are literally just plastic discs.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Here comes the "me and a guy I know have had poly bushings on a street car for 75 years and have had ZERO problems" crew.

testify

Actually, many REAL track cars use poly.

It's just not the same poly that ES sells.

The poly AKG bushing on my E36 are as hard as delrin or aluminum.

But people in the Honda world are installing these bushings onto $1500 cars, nOT high dOlla track builds. No need for a couple grand worth of proper bushings on a $1500 car.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

I doubt OP's car is an actual track car. Its a street car that has big plans. The sad reality is that most of these track plans never pan out.

So why lie to yourself?

Build a street car. It'll still be fun and fast on a track.

98civdx

Poly TA bushings, NEVER again. they were horrible. In fact I gave them to my buddy, and he put them in his car. They made it a week and he ordered Hard race pieces.

Poly has to be kept clean, and lubed or you will have issues. They are also known to not like bad weather climates. And wont last worth a ****.
My car rode like *** anyways, so I can't really comment on that.

chrysler kid

I mean if you like feeling every crack in the pavement, cringing any time you hit a pot hole because it feels like it was a concrete slab you just bottomed out on, then go for it.

You can put them in a track car, but you could also just use wheel bearings too, but they are designed to have a certain amount of flex

I just know how I am about a moded car. Eventually all the **** you don't like about it adds up and you wind up selling the car because it's a pain to drive it anywhere. So now the car rides like crap, you have to worry about it getting stolen, other issues, and bam your posting it up looking for another hatch to start over with

Its not like replacing every single bushing is a little job either, and you're really not going to be motivated to do it all over again to put back in stock rubber bushings

testify

So your complaints are not with the performance of poly, as you previously claimed, but rather with the NVH?

You want maintenance free and any little squeak in your rattle box Honda drives you nuts.

Got it.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

We think the same way!

My hondas don't rattle. They have rubber bushings that are in good shape. They're both also fairly quick at the track. I pass MASSIVE amounts of BMWs.

Also...bro...you drive a E36. Lmk rattles.

testify

You could pass Veyrons at the track and be embarrassed by every single Miata out there, but thats irrelevant.

My E36 has no rattles, just gear whine on account of all the solid bushings and fancy diff gears. But it's low mileage and I can attest it has never been abused in 18 years (I'm the original owner), so no rattles.

forbiddenera

I have to say I think it's funny after about a year of reading hundreds if bushing threads on this site that 98% of them recommend poly for 98% applications and the sAmerican 98% said it made a huge handling diffrench (again, probaby on cars with shot bushins to begin with). Minus full race cars & specific bushing places (rta) but now I make a thread and poly isn't worth the material it's made out of and rides like crap?

Not that I'm arguing, I appreciate the input and experience of others, just curious why that input was different for many others in my shoes.

I don't even remember asking if poly was bad, I asked if there was better options for certain places (obviously there's better options for everywhere but like testify said, I'm not planning (yet) to spend 1500 on bushings for a (in my case) 600 chassis. Probably never will. Not sure how well pillow ***** will hold up to launching the car 4 or 5 feet off the ground, maybe better than others, maybe not, maybe hard rubber is better. But factor that into it. My track car will likely have pillow ***** where it counts and hard rubber elsewhere (believe I said that already even) but my mostly-driven-on-gravel-will-probably-get-smashed-into-a-tree-one-day car doesn't need to be $$$$
My long term goal is to build something fun & reasonably inexpensive that will pass scrutineering for regional and national CARS rally, which is why I'm open to suggestions for future bushings. First comes roll cage, seats, harnesses & just enough body work so there's no visible rust. At that point, I can potentially pass scrutiny and run. I want to get out there and have fun not save for another 10 years until I can afford to have a car with perfect everything down to the last bushing & by then be too old, I'm already 30.

Also, how many of you have built a rally car or rallied? I'm sure 99% of this site is daily drivers, quarter mile runners and circle track & auto-X. Maybe poly is even worse for this application than others; that's not what I'm saying, just pointing out this fact.

Presently, it's my DD as my sedan was hit my a douche bag running a stop sign and I've gone through 3 sets of tires in 3 months due to worn bushings and bad alignment, $60 to fix that, poly or not, is fine with me.

chrysler kid

Yep. Keep things simple