Tony_C

Hi Guys,

I am new to the honda game. I have a 97 civic d16y8 with 225,000 miles on the clock. The headgasket is going out on me and causing the car to over heat. Is that too many miles to change a head gasket? Will I need to have the heads machined, assmuming they must be warped with the milage. If I can change the head gasket is there anything else I should look out for besides warped heads? I use this car just to get me to and from work, so not looking to put too much money into it.

Thanks in advance for the advice!

White_EG1

Head gasket at 225k I believe is normal with as old as these cars are. Shoot most Hondas I seen with bad head gaskets didn't even have 200k.

Def have the machine shop check out the head.

Depending on how hot you ran it, and how long it was ran. You might just check out of the machine shop Scott free.

Tony_C

Can i replace it? I heard on milage that high the motor will not like being taken apart and being put back together

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

<p>There's no such thing as &quot;too many miles&quot; for a head gasket. &nbsp;Yes, you need to check the head and block for flatness, which, if you aren't familiar with it, it's better to just drop it off at a machine shop and let them do it. &nbsp;With that many miles, you might want to go for a full refresh anyway. &nbsp;It just depends on how much time and money you're willing to put into it, and what kind of result you want out of it.</p>

Tony_C

Thanks for the advice. Machine shop and refresh sounds expensive. I didnt want to spend more than $500. Its just a daily driver, not a performance car for me. Would it make sense to just drop in another used engine at how much I want to spend?

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

<p>Not particularly - a used engine is a complete crap shoot, and there are certain things you'll still need to do to that engine to do the job correctly. &nbsp;With some smart shopping, and a little bit of effort, you can pull the head, have a machine shop check it, reinstall it with a new head gasket kit, new head bolts, and a new timing belt, and be good to go for another 200k miles, within your budget.</p>

24TEN

iTrader: (2)

Depends if you'll be doing the labor or not. If replacing the engine, it would depend on where you buy. In all honesty if you're not doing the work yourself and you're not too experienced in this type of work it'd be better to just replace the engine.

Tony_C

@NotARaCist - The car isn't burning any oil. Do you think I should leave the rings and pistons alone for a refresh?


@24TEN- I will be doing to work myself and should be able to do the head gasket. I am experienced but have only worked on low mileage subarus.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

<p>If you aren't burning oil, then yeah, you can get away with just doing the top end and timing, and stay within your budget. &nbsp;If you're used to Subarus, you'll be in for an absolute treat, not having to drop the motor to get the head off </p>

Tony_C

@NotARaCist- haha the reason I got a Honda is because they are easy to work on. Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it.

chrysler kid

303k factory head and block numbers matching on my car. Just keep ahead of maintenance and it'll keep going for many many miles.

I think you're confusing easy to work on, with cheap car and still has flair. Otherwise you'd be driving a 96 corolla or something

It's not even worth selling at this point, the used honda market is flat as a pancake around here

redm3turbo

I changed a head d15b7 - i mean installed a rebuilt head (the entire thing) w/o core, new timing belt, waterpump (both oem) 3 layer head gasket kit-plugs/wires/cap/rotor etc, and it was right around 500. if i reused the head, I would assume Id have roughly 350 in the entire job. Depending on the machine shop of course

98civdx

My head gasket just let go at about ~250K.

The head did need to be decked.

If you have experience, you're fine. I had my head off in 40 minutes, and that's counting fighting the crank pulley bolt.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

<p>Yep, it's a pretty easy job, if you're detail oriented. &nbsp;Even for a complete novice, a couple hours to get it off, however much time the machine shop needs (maybe an hour or two, maybe a week, all depends on the shop), then a couple hours to stitch it all back together. &nbsp;Just make sure you do it right the first time around. &nbsp;Even if it doesn't need to be decked, having a machine shop do valve stem seals, valve guides, and a hydrosonic dip will help your engine run well, and realistically won't cost more than a couple hundred. &nbsp;Definitely be sure to replace your timing belt, water pump, and tensioner while you're in there, too - it'd be silly not to.</p>

TomCat39

No, these older Honda's are easy to work on. Especially compared to the Subaru pancake motors. Or even the typical V8 with lifters. try changing a camshaft in one of those. Or just doing an oil change on some Suzuki Sidekicks etc., /or how about a fuel pump on a Cavalier.

Seriously, Honda back in the day actually put thought into repairs and getting parts in and out of the car.

OP. You might be lucky if you haven't over heated the car much and not need to deck the head. You might want to google and download the Factory Service Manual for the 96-00 civic. It will give you all the specs so you can measure much of it yourself so you know just what you need from the Machine shop beyond the jet wash/Hot tank and planing the head.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

<p>Having worked on many different cars and trucks, newer and older, it's pretty clear that Japanese companies care more about their technicians than American or German companies. &nbsp;Honda, Subaru, and Nissan have all taken minor &quot;under the hood&quot; queues from each other, as well as from what's worked in the past, whereas American companies would rather &quot;make it all fit in there&quot;, and German companies would rather make the car unserviceable by owners, sometimes&nbsp;at the expense of their tech's sanity. &nbsp;Japanese cars are definitely easier as a whole, and Hondas easier than Subarus, simply due to the nature of the engine. &nbsp;Hondas make great starter cars for just that reason - easy to teach a kid how to work on cars.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>TomCat, ever tried to replace the rear plugs/wires on an older Chevy conversion van? &nbsp;Or the coil pack on a late 90's/early 00's Chevy? &nbsp;Chevy blocks them with the firewall/subframe, and Chevy tucked the coil on the back of the motor, wedged between all sorts of ****. &nbsp;Hell, Audi even specifies that their service&nbsp;techs remove the entire radiator support to pull a motor in some of their newer cars.</p>

king06

iTrader: (1)

My wagon hg let go at around 280k. I got a cheap one from autozone, cleaned the head and block with a razor blade and it works perfectly fine no problems. It was like $60?

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

<p>Razor blades can damage the metal if you aren't careful. &nbsp;A rubber/plastic gasket scraper (Permatex calls theirs the&nbsp;SaferScraper) makes that risk 0. &nbsp;I'm a firm believer in only using MLS OEM gaskets for basic rebuilds.</p>

civiclady

I do not want to hijack the thread but I do not want to create another one, either. I have 280,000 miles on my 1994 LX with the original head gasket. I just got done changing the cooling hoses and while I was at it, checked the timing belt. It has tiny checkered cracks all over it so I am going to replace it, along with changing spark plugs, valve cover gasket, seals, and wires. And maybe do the alternator belt too.

From reading this thread, I gather it might be dumb not to change the head gasket being that it does not sound too hard to do. I cannot afford a mechanic so that option is out. I have the factory manual. The car runs fine. I take it out of town often and put 1000 miles on it in a few days once in a while. Never had issues.

If I decide to change the gasket myself, should I still take the head to a machine shop even though it is not having problems or burning oil? And what other steps should I consider? What can I watch for that may give me hell? Any help is very much appreciated!

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

<p>If there's nothing wrong with your head gasket, don't replace it. &nbsp;If it ain't broke, don't fix it. &nbsp;You should, however, replace your timing belt (and tensioner, and water pump).</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>And please, don't threadjack. &nbsp;If, after searching and reading, your question isn't answered, make your own thread. &nbsp;A threadjack ends in different people helping different people, messages get crossed, and someone ends up doing something stupid.</p>

civiclady

Thanks, NotaRacist, I just do not want to be stuck on the highway one day. On the other hand, I do not want to look for trouble where I do not have any. This little car might give me another 75k miles or like 5 years! I just want to do right by it too. It has done right by me!

ek9_beast

Yea you never want to crack a motor open unless you absolutely have to. There's nothing like that original build

civiclady

Thanks!

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

...on the other hand, b7's are notorious head gasket blowers. getting in there with an mls gasket BEFORE it ***** its head is a good idea. for my car's 300k birthday, it is getting tbelt, water pump, all seals and gaskets. why not?

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

<p>Because they're also notorious for never sealing again properly after the head comes off, even using MLS head gaskets.</p>