squarepusher

granted it was supposedly bored to a 2.4 L (H22 motor), i just got it back tuned from a dyno tuning at a hondashop, and it gets horrific mileage. im basicalyl filling up the tank every fsking 2 trips i make

now, im trying to pinpoint this, i have another post in the ECU thread , that there might be problems with my P28 ECU ... i really wanna get this up to above 2, considering i konw several people who even pulled 30+ mpg off a h22 civic ... so basically my conern is soethign is majorly 'wrong' here. btw im not hard driving it either.

what do yall think ... before i /wrists

hapexamendios 2.0

maybe someone screwed something up when they "bored it out to 2.4"?

squarepusher

maybe they did 4.2 instead =]

but the thing is, it shows 181 hp on the dyno last week, so i would expect more for the amount of gas this uses lawl.

anyways, i still plan on taking it up to Mike, to get his opinion on matters ... i cant make Dyno day tommorrow -_-, fsking stil at work alsmot 12:30 friday night

92egcivic

Somethings gotta be wrong cause a stock H22 should pull 200 hp and 161 ft/lbs torque

EJgsr

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 92egcivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Somethings gotta be wrong cause a stock H22 should pull 200 hp and 161 ft/lbs torque </TD></TR></TABLE>

at the crank maybe...

quicksilver1689

If you want help u have to give us useful information. What program is on the ecu for tuning? Give us a full modification list like cams, headwork, exhaust, internals, ect. Then we can hopefulyl try and trouble shoot. If i were you id check the basics first to make sure everything is in good condition like wires, plugs, dizzy, ect. Then go through your fuel system. Is there any check engines lights?

Kafelatte

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 92egcivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Somethings gotta be wrong cause a stock H22 should pull 200 hp and 161 ft/lbs torque </TD></TR></TABLE>
it's a 2.4 liter and making only that much power. something is seriously wrong with the motor.

squarepusher

allrite. ill give everything i know here, i got teh civic for $4000, without paint, window motor not wokring, lacking lots of interior stuff, rear seatbelts gone ltos of other stuff gone (speedometer clister with 46,000 miles even though its registered at the DMV as 96,000 on its last). So i took risk getting this car as is ...

The h22 is stamped "Manny Fermin 00127" (lol?)
its from the seller (I believe this) a built h22 bored out to a 2.4 L.
It runs Eagle H Beam rods and pistons. the compression is 12.5 : 1
dc 4-2-1 header that leads into a stright exhaust at a diameter of 2 1/2" and
a 255welbro pump installed

I later had a P28 and Hondata S200 managment system installed, and took it to GreenLight auto down here in san diego, the found the timing belt was off, put on new Skun2 manifold and did the Dyno tuning and got it running. They had some problems with the tuning due to the P28, they said they were going to replace it, but I think they just replaced some resistors in it (not sure).

The CEL light is ON, i tried jumping the pins and turning the key to on, but its just Solid (no codes).

So, I plan on taking it up to AMS mike, but heres the thing, i gotta drive about 100+ miles, and take a day off work to have him look at it. So i wanna get as much stuff done before hand as possible, so we can get some real work done when i do take the day off and go up there...

anyways , from the Dyno print out last week, it has 181 MAx HP @ 6400 HP, and 175GtLB @ 5000 RPM. I plan on rereading this thread that everyones advice, to get the basicas out of the way before i goto mike and tune it up ... should I try for another P28 (this one is bad?) or figure out the CEL lgiht problem first ...

anyways, i got this civic and i wanna get it running, i think it could be fast obviously, running at 13mpg normal driving something is seriously missing from this equation and I dont wanna blow something up next week ...

squarepusher

up up and away

Syndacate

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by USDMej1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

at the crank maybe... </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah but he's making what, 161whp? He should be making around 160-170whp bone stock with an H22.

EDIT:
I think they fucked up the tune. Seriously, horrible mpg and shitty power. Both signs of a fucked up tune, especially after that.

AntiStock

When you accelerate, is there any black smoke out the tailpipe? That might show that it's running really rich. Are you sure all of the cylinders are firing? How's the idle?

squarepusher

ill agree with that, even though the shop is one of THE BEST reccomended honda places in souther california (Green Light HOnda), I think their tuner is non affiliated.

It took them 3 weeks to tune it (they tune on saturdays only, first week the guy went to the desert unexpectadly, second week they 'ran into problems,' and the third week it took them forever). NOTE: on the second week, I talked to them on the phone, they said my P28 was shot, and they needed a new one. So, I told them I could drop a new one by (since i can get them locally), they they said 'no, its fine we have extra here.' Turned out they ended up using the original P28 (when i picked it up they said they replaced some resistors).

Total cost? $150/hr @ 5 hours = $750, for a 181 built H22 with 13/mpg.

Anyways, I guess waht ill do is get a REAL tuning, and if there does seem to be a BIG problem it turns out with the original tuning, ill go back to Greenlight and let them know. Im sure they will work something out with me. Thanks for all the replies guys, and if anyone can think of anything else 'missing' in this equation either, then you can let me know.

AntiStock

Man...even when I had my turbo GSR tuned for the first time at Payne (when it was in business) it only took about 5 hours total for everything. 3 weeks seems ridiculous.

Syndacate

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AntiStock &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Man...even when I had my turbo GSR tuned for the first time at Payne (when it was in business) it only took about 5 hours total for everything. 3 weeks seems ridiculous. </TD></TR></TABLE>

It only took them 5 hours total too...just b/c it was spanned to only working saturdays.

AntiStock

Ah, I see...I guess putting in a little overtime during the week would have been out of the question.

2.2coupster

Hey, you should think about a custom header and cams also(new ECU) it will be well worth your money. I know the owner of Green Light at Pann Auto performance and im pretty sure your his first 2.4 h22 test rat. get back if you need help.

blinx9900

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Syndacate &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah but he's making what, 161whp? He should be making around 160-170whp bone stock with an H22.

EDIT:
I think they fucked up the tune. Seriously, horrible mpg and shitty power. Both signs of a fucked up tune, especially after that.</TD></TR></TABLE>

he said 181whp.. still low for a 2.4 though...

squarepusher

allrite gents, got some updates.

my h22 civic spews black smoke/soot and has HEAVY gasoline smell in the oil.

so oil is getting into my cylinders somehow ...

i did a quick check on a generic car site, and it said it could be a carburetor that is out of adjustment, a faulty fuel pump, a leaky fuel injector, or a faulty ECU or computer sensor.

I am not sure if this is a common problem with swaps or not , remember i have the welboro fuel pump install ... so where would you guys go about starting to figure out whats causing this is now the relevent question ... ????

Eran

iTrader: (1)

You need to not work on your car if you're considering the option that it could be "a carburetor that is out of adjustment"

squarepusher

i jsut copied and pasted from the original article, but nice witty comment LOL!

Eran

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by squarepusher &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i jsut copied and pasted from the original article, but nice witty comment LOL!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, witty indeed. So witty, in fact, that I know an H22 doesn't have a carburetor.

Kista20

Check with some of the basics like pull a spark plug out and look at it, if it's wet and also smells like gas you should get the fuel pressure checked out because it could have a bad fuel pressure regulator and letting too much fuel in that way. Also try to get that cel working.

aspec101

sounds like your piston rings were not properly gapped by the guy you bought it from. Possibly lots of blowby. Do a leak down test on the engine and you will find out whats really going on in there. A compression test will give you a general idea, but a leakdown test will pin point your problem. A h22 bored over with 12.5:1 pistons should scream.

HiProfile

I'm guessing they didn't resleeve the block. Although my knowledge of H-series is limited, I'd guess it was a 1mm overbore with an h23 crank, making it nearly 2.4L.

The problem would come from the pistons & rings. The stock sleeves are FRM (fibre reinforced metal), and the rings/pistons need special coatings on them to keep from galling the cyl walls. High oil consumption/blue smoke would indicate the sleeves are probably junk.

If theres a heavy gasoline smell in the oil and its spewing black smoke, its probably running WAY too rich. The bearings will go soon too unless you change the oil every couple hundred miles, as gasoline basicly becomes corrosive in oil. Too much fuel will also 'washout' the rings, which would also FUBAR the rings/sleeves.


Aside from that, I'd be pissed at 13mpg. I was annoyed getting 23mpg (12-13:1 AFR's while cruising, 1.6L) with my turbo sedan before I could tune it and run it closed loop. Do a compression test to check if the cylinders are all even.

squarepusher

all rite, i just put on the stock h22 ECU, and it doesn't try to stall out anymore at IDLE. MY guess is (hoping) the P28 was bad that i was using, and was causing the problems. That would be the easiest fix at least. So im gunna go get some new oil to get rid of the gass thats in mine now, and then run some more tests, probably a compression ... then see about the CEL.

thanks for everyones help so far ;p