hypnolobster

2000 LX manual, stock everything

I was driving home and it shut off while driving, wouldn't restart. Got it towed home and just got a little bit of time to look at it today.

What I know from messing with it today
- Timing belt isn't broken
- Has spark on all 4 cylinders, looks strong
- Has fuel out of the filter
- Main relay clicks, fuel pump runs
- Injectors have 12v
- Tach does not move while cranking
- CEL does not come on when you turn the key on
- Plugs were reasonably dry and I get no fuel smell despite cranking the hell out of it
- Exhaust/cat isn't plugged
- Fuses all good

What I don't know yet
- If injectors are actually doing anything (not sure how to figure this out short of listening to them through a screwdriver)
- If the timing belt jumped a few teeth
- If it has compression

What I did
- Put in my spare main relay while i was waiting for the tow truck a few days ago
- Threw an igniter I had laying around in it just for good measure today
- Checked every ground I could find


Any ideas what the hell I should look at next?

I also want to make it clear that I'm a giant moron when it comes to electrical problems, so that makes this way harder.

Former User

Install a working CEL bulb in the cluster and then pull the codes.

Check the mechanical timing, and compression test the cylinders.

hypnolobster

Edited the OP because I forgot a few things (cat not plugged, plugs were dry, no fuel smell from exhaust)

I'll double check the CEL bulb is alive and pull codes. I was planning on checking compression as a first test but couldn't find my gauge. I'll pick one up. If it's not an obvious smoking gun, I was actually planning on doing the timing belt/waterpump/tensioner this weekend.

I seem to remember from reading about igniter/coil issues on my other civic that no CEL on key-on is PCM related, right? That's essentially my nightmare.

Former User

Why are you discussing the coil and ICM when you state that you have spark?

hypnolobster

Sorry, the mention of ICM/coil is actually unrelated to this issue, it's just what I was looking for when I saw people mentioning that no-CEL is related to PCM/ECM and injector control.

I was essentially wondering if I confirm the CEL bulb is good that the no-CEL on key-on is related to injector pulse or PCM/ECM.

e: I guess I should just call it an ECU

Former User

Why talk in hypotheticals rather than just check whether the CEL works?

hypnolobster

Mostly because the car is 30 miles away from me and I want to try and get as much information about what direction to go depending on various outcomes.
With any luck I'll have a few hours in the dark tomorrow night to work on it.

Edit:
http://techauto.awardspace.com/ecu.html
This, and some random forum posts are where I saw that mention of CEL at key-on being related to ECU issues came from. Not sure how entirely relevant it is considering I'm not sure my car actually has an ECU relay. What I think is the ECU fuse is listed on the fusebox cover as FI/EM, and pulling that made it stop priming (so I'm assuming the ECU is getting 12v)

Former User

When you get access to the car, focus on diagnostics rather than guesswork.

jooky5

my 92 would idle but die if i gave it gas. turned out to be bad distributor.

tamboo

Starting Problems

hypnolobster

This was the right move instead of continuing to mess with other things. CEL bulb was completely missing, and it had a lean code P0171 and P1457.

It took forever for the weather to cooperate and for me to have time, but I pulled the valvecover/timing cover and holy hell the belt was shot. So, I did the timing belt and related and buttoned it up. I smoked the coil when I was trying to diagnose while angry and tired the first day, so I swapped the coil in from my 99 and it started up without a problem.

I got insanely lucky that it didn't mash a valve. With the cam gear aligned with the marks, the crank timing mark was pointing roughly at 11:00 instead of 12:45ish where the mark on the block is. PO said the belt was done at 105, car is at 160. The belt was chinese made and I guess just gave up the ghost early.


Thanks everyone.

92civicdxhatch

55k out of a Chinese belt is good.. I think they are supposed to be replaced at 60k anyway?

When I owned a daily Honda before the military, I checked mine at 50k.. Check my gfs Kia every 50k too.

Glad you got it fixed

hypnolobster

Yeah, I'll be checking my 99 now too. It's got about 60k since I last did the belt, with 245k on the motor.

The book says 105k under normal conditions, but I think I've learned not to trust that with non-OEM parts.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

55k out of any belt is horrible. Like, abysmally horrible.

https://honda-tech.com/honda-civic-d...edule-2053807/

Timing belt should be replaced every 105,000 miles, according to NOFX's thread. I don't have an FSM at work to verify, but she knows her stuff, so I'm inclined to believe her. 55k is right around HALF of that. That's not even remotely acceptable. So that belt lost two teeth, and all of that cracking tells me it's just waiting for a small misfire to snap in half, after half of it's service life?



Replace that belt with a quality (read: OEM) belt. While you're down there, replace the water pump, too - if that's the quality of "acceptable" to whoever did the belt job, then I wouldn't trust anything they had done to that car. While you're doing that, take this opportunity to give your car a full tuneup, with quality parts. NGK plugs and wires. OEM cap, rotor, and fuel filter.

Love your car, and it'll love you back.

92civicdxhatch

It says 105k OR 7 years. Either way, in that inspection log, it never tells you to change your water pump through 120000 miles..

Now I used to work on cars and did a lot of Honda timing belts.. About three quarters of the customers opted to change the water pump while I was in there.. Safe maintenance right! Just saying from my experiences, half of those that did timing belt only, would be back for a water pump too. You cant believe everything everyone posts. I'm not trying to argue or say she is wrong by any means, but changing spark plugs at 30k is overrated too..

Anyway, my last post in this thread, glad you got it fixed again.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

I'm not sure what your point is here. Yes, 105k or 7 years, but it would be a statistical anomaly if OP's timing belt is more than 7 years old.

I'm with you on the water pump, though. It's a cheap part, compared to the labor cost, so there's really no reason not to replace it while you're in there. You weren't around in the hayday of HT, but maybe after you read enough, you'll come to see that NOFX really is (or was) the queen of information when it comes to 88-00 Civics. Those aren't her "personal opinions", that's what either the owner's manual or the FSM states as proper maintenance. Yes, sometimes it seems like it's pushing it, especially given the ages of these cars. I do spark plugs every 6 months (which comes to like, 1500 miles for me), and wires every year. Plugs are a dollar apiece, and wires are $50. Drop in the bucket, and there's nothing to harm by doing maintenance "too often".

I think you and I are on the same page, just saying things differently.

92civicdxhatch

We are on the same page, and the heyday of HT was after Nov 13? Semantics though.. Even if those are from the FSM or owners manuals, tell me how many people A. Actually read them. B actually drove the car for its intended purpose I.E. Never raced, driven hard, burnout, short shift, powershift, hard launch, redline everyday.. Or C. Used the proper maintenance schedule to begin with.

I get what your saying, believe me I do, but I can't say even with my to the T maintenance schedule and my driving habits, I can remotely say I even fit in the severe duty platform of that post you linked.

100% of people on this forum have done something other than the way that FSM or Owners Manual states NOT to do, including the queen of knowledge.

But I digress, no arguments, not gettin excited, just stating facts is all. How long I've been on this forum is no substitute to my automotive skill and expertise nor a replacement for my experience. That my friend is irrelevant.

And lastly we are saying the same thing just differently.