TRE_

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RICO_ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And if the DCRH is gonna cause lean running issues (which the MAF sensor i thought was supposed to correct), </TD></TR></TABLE>

The MAF adjusts fuel enrichment depending on how much air is being sucked into the engine, so the MAF is not going to make corrections for changes brought about by the header necessarily

RICO_

So now according to the dealerships and corporate the car will probably run lean. And according to Hondata the car will run lean. And the hondata apparently will NOT fix the issue. So there's no way around it.

Conclusion: DCRH = ****!

gus738

i know this doesnt matter but dc / is aem and i too no matter what i attempt cannot get rid of my cel P0171 on my r18 (ex) have a aem cai its gotten resetd but comes back , anyways dont waste your time with dc/aem they are pretty much helpless uhh what exactly is the honda reflash? and i have a r18 ex auto 1.8

808k20z3

so what header or header cat combo would be safest!

Jay2005

RICO...im somewhat confused...The only thing that is changed when adding the DCRH is only 1 sensor...and that sensor is only making sure that the CAT is in working order...making sure that the exhaust is being filtrated by federal law....The one ahead of that is the O2 sensor! So either way taking off the header or not is not messing around with the O2 sensor in any way but is however giving you this CEL error or the Check Engine light which can be fixed with the non-fouler...it works perfectly! Once you put the non-fouler on and take off the battery let it run for a good 15 minutes in idle to reprogram the ECU with the increased performance of the exhaust...then you are set to go! Hondata in no way will fix the ECU to not give a CEL with your current race-header exhaust...you need to set it up with the non-fouler and reset the ECU and idle. After that if that CEL is still giving you issues...then I really cant help you. I have had my race header on for quite sometime with the setup I have just told you about and it runs great...haven't had that CEL come on since.
Furthermore...putting the DCRH will make the car run lean? Didn't Hondata or someone else say that the car was already running rich? Either way the car compensates for correct ratios whether it is in the amount of air or even the quality of the gas being put in...Im sure someone might know more about this than I could ever tell you but I have been told about this. Good luck with whatever happens.

RICO_

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jay2005 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">RICO...im somewhat confused...The only thing that is changed when adding the DCRH is only 1 sensor...and that sensor is only making sure that the CAT is in working order...making sure that the exhaust is being filtrated by federal law....The one ahead of that is the O2 sensor! So either way taking off the header or not is not messing around with the O2 sensor in any way but is however giving you this CEL error or the Check Engine light which can be fixed with the non-fouler...it works perfectly! Once you put the non-fouler on and take off the battery let it run for a good 15 minutes in idle to reprogram the ECU with the increased performance of the exhaust...then you are set to go! Hondata in no way will fix the ECU to not give a CEL with your current race-header exhaust...you need to set it up with the non-fouler and reset the ECU and idle. After that if that CEL is still giving you issues...then I really cant help you. I have had my race header on for quite sometime with the setup I have just told you about and it runs great...haven't had that CEL come on since.
Furthermore...putting the DCRH will make the car run lean? Didn't Hondata or someone else say that the car was already running rich? Either way the car compensates for correct ratios whether it is in the amount of air or even the quality of the gas being put in...Im sure someone might know more about this than I could ever tell you but I have been told about this. Good luck with whatever happens. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I know i'm trying to figure it all out to. The car hasn't been giving me any performance problems at all. It's just the CEL and the dealership and hondata telling me that the ECU puts the car in some kind of safe mode and makes it run lean with the DCRH. I thought the MAF sensor compensates and I hope it does, but I guess i'll find out.

I'm getting the non-fouler put on tomorrow first thing and i'll follow ur advice with the letting the car stand for 15 minutes cause somebody else told me that to.

Guess i'll see what happens after that. Then i'll probably take it back to the dealer to see if it still throws a code.

My last DCRH on my last car worked perfect. But all this bad rep about DC concerns me and makes me think twice.!

The Answer

And uh, where could one get one of these..... "non-fouler's"?

RICO_

Auto Zone or most auto parts stores.

Part # 42009

The Answer

Mucho gracias bro.

RICO_

Anytime. Good luck!

cnyej1

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jay2005 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">RICO...im somewhat confused...The only thing that is changed when adding the DCRH is only 1 sensor...and that sensor is only making sure that the CAT is in working order...making sure that the exhaust is being filtrated by federal law....The one ahead of that is the O2 sensor! So either way taking off the header or not is not messing around with the O2 sensor in any way but is however giving you this CEL error or the Check Engine light which can be fixed with the non-fouler...it works perfectly!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Are you saying that the second sensor is not an 02 sensor? Because it is. Our cars have 2 02 sensors. One measures in front and the other inside the cat.

TRE_

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RICO_ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I thought the MAF sensor compensates and I hope it does, but I guess i'll find out.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I dont think you completley understand what a MASS AIR FLOW sensor is...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
A mass airflow sensor is used to determine the mass of air <u>entering</u> the engine. The air mass information is necessary to calculate and deliver the correct fuel mass to the engine. Air is a gas, and its density changes as it expands and contracts with temperature and pressure. In automotive applications, air density varies with the vehicle's operating environment, and is an ideal application for a mass sensor.</TD></TR></TABLE>

If the dealership/honda/etc is telling you that the header is causing a lean mixture then its your 02 sensor that needs to do the compensating... has nothing to do with the MAF.

cnyej1

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TRE_ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I dont think you completley understand what a MASS AIR FLOW sensor is...

If the dealership/honda/etc is telling you that the header is causing a lean mixture then its your 02 sensor that needs to do the compensating... has nothing to do with the MAF.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Exactly.

Jay2005

cnyej1- why would our car have 2 O2 sensors on the exhaust? I think the point I was trying to grab at is that the second one is measuring if the cat is working and not how the car is going to run...its a federal mandate of somekind to have a sensor to see if it is in working condition...thats what I was told...and thats why you fool it with the "non-fouler" Hope this helps.

RICO_

I hope so to. So the car needs to idle for about 15 minutes after re-connecting the battery right?

The Answer

Yeah

RICO_

i'll keep my fingers crossed.

cnyej1

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jay2005 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">cnyej1- why would our car have 2 O2 sensors on the exhaust? I think the point I was trying to grab at is that the second one is measuring if the cat is working and not how the car is going to run...its a federal mandate of somekind to have a sensor to see if it is in working condition...thats what I was told...and thats why you fool it with the "non-fouler" Hope this helps.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes the second one is too measure if the cat is working. i thought you were saying there was only one 02 sensor and the second one wasnt one.

RICO_

Im confused. If the second 02 sensor is ONLY supposed to measure if the cat is functioning or not, then why would it affect A/F. The only code i'm getting from the dealer is for the removal of the cat. They never popped a code for A/F or anything like that. Then again i'm not 100% on how codes work.

Jay2005

exactly RICO...the second should change the A/F ratio...the CEL you are getting is from removing the CAT...so how did the non-fouler work?

RICO_

NO. The non-fouler didn't work here's why......

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/1859045

And I thought the primary O2 sensor determines A/F, not the secondary.

Jay2005

RICO...what did you drill it with a homemade device? IDIOT...jk...slowly make the hole big enough for the sensor to fit in there...hell you could put that sensor inside the car and the CEL wouldn't go off...wrap it with foil...anything!!! ANYTHING just get it out of the way of the "dirty" exhaust flow that is making it go off! Its not rocket science and you dont need some expensive part to do this...the non-fouler is just a way for the sensor to look like it is still measuring but its not and its also a way to keep that hole closed with something rather than nothing.

Im praying for you buddy!

RICO_

First.....I didn't do the install IDIOT (j/k.. ). I took it to a shop with the part I bought from Auto Zone cause i don't have the tools to do it at my house. Don't know if he shaved too much or if the metal is just cheap and caused it to break, but i'm not about to sit around for another hour just to wait for them to try it again.

Second....i remember somebody mentioning that wrapping foil or completely cutting off exhaust flow to the secondary O2 sensor would trip the CEL and that there had to be at least some exhaust flow just as long as it's considerably less than the primary.

I've already got another pre-made O2 defouler setup on the way and i'll see if that works. If not i'll get an O2 simulator.

Jay2005

IDIOT! LMAO!

just keep saying it out loud it makes me laugh.

RICO_

This **** better work.