JarvisW

My niece just got an 07 Civic 4cyl and I'm trying to figure out whats wrong with it all of a sudden.

She said the A/C was working, but was warm at lights, so she tried to add some freon, but that made it stop working. She took it to famous tire place, and they told her "its the compressor, it spit dye all over" and wanted to charge her $3500 for that and tires lmao..

I tried letting the excess out until it would come on, but it never has since then. I looked for the leak but cant find it. I replaced the shrader valves. Gave it a vacuum, and 30 mins later its at 0 again. It never got down below 30 either.. There was no dye anywhere near the compressor, or the parts of the condenser I can see through the grill. Oh, and it held whatever freon was put into it, as it took a few seconds to empty after removing the valve to replace. (so obviously a slow leaker)

So, I figure gotta find the leak of course, but why didn't the compressor ever come back on? As an experiment, I tried to jump straight to the compressor wire from batt +(middle wire that connects at alternator according to ytube) and nothing, but when I just papercliped the hi/low switch's outside wires, the engine instantly died.. (sign of locked up compressor??)

Anything I can do to test further before I just start taking it all apart hoping I find a leak somewhere?

Thanks!

nsxmatt

Who put they dye in it? It won't have dye unless someone evacuated the system and recharged it. If it's a large leak enough where it won't hold a vac or charge then it will be a noticeable leak. If the compressor is locked up it won't turn, very east to check. The compressor will not come on if the low and high side is not at the correct pressure.

JarvisW

The tire co said they put dye in, and it squirted out of the compressor. I saw no traces of dye, just 2 days later tho.

THEN I vacuumed it, it wouldn't hold, so I put my own dye in and added freon. It was holding at about 60psi, but I'm sure it won't be there when I check tonight.

How do I check if the compressor is locked up w/o engaging the clutch? I can't jump it directly. And yes, I know the low/hi keeps it from working, but when jumped, it killed the engine.

EDIT: I was able to turn the clutch by hand, and could feel it compressing. so, how come its not coming on when its got from 40-80psi of pressure? Shouldn't it come on if its a lil under pressure, so I can add the rest? It takes about 3/4th can, and thats it.

Whats the standard for this? Vacuum, check if it holds, then add 16oz, right? And as its added, it eventually starts working to take the rest in, right?

Ugh..

holmesnmanny

Are you aware you need special glasses and uv light to see the dye ?

If the compressor bearing locks up it will take the alternator belt with it and you will not be able to turn the pulley as the bearing is pressed into the pulley.

You can apply battery to the coil connector to test if the air gap is outside of spec and too large to allow the compressor to engage.

nsxmatt

You can't put 1lb in and expect it to kick on when it takes almost 2 lbs. Honestly it sounds like it's over your head. I'd take it to a reputable shop and have them properly pull a vacuum and charge it with a proper machine. That will tell you quickly and easily.

prodjay10

It should kick on with just a few ounces. Don't keep running it that low because you'll ruin the compressor but it's necessary when refilling.

you gotta be careful when adding dye or oil. There is a limited amount of space in the system. If you add too much oil or dye, you reduce the amount of space for refrigerant.

JarvisW

Yes, I have the light and GLASSES, but I can see the mist of dye just fine without them in the dark.

In over my head.. ok.. it only takes a LIL more than one can to fill (15.9oz) not close to two btw.. (so it SHOULD start working with one can in, but it does not)



Anyway, which wire should I check for continuity to see if the clutch is blown, since I can't seem to jump it straight?

BTW, I've got several different make/model cars A/C working over the years. Never had a problem getting the comp to kick in after a good vacuum (unless clutch or compressor was blown), so thats why I need to find the clutch wire and go from there.

holmesnmanny

the compressor should turn on with only atleast half total capacity

and you need to check the clutch air gap, ac clutches don't really blow up the air gap just gets too big for the coil to pull the clutch together, you remove or get a smaller shim to bring it within spec

JarvisW

Ok, I will check that. but what is the coil wire while I'm there? Is it the middle one in the connector on the Alternator? I don't have a lot of room to trace it by hand.

(The workroom keeps getting smaller in these cars! geeze lol)

holmesnmanny

Yes, that activates the clutch which spins the compressor shaft.

JarvisW

Ok, the clutch is burnt out. No ohms from middle wire, unplugged from harness at Alternator, to where the green wire grounds on the side of the compressor.. ugh..

At least half the problem is solved, and since knowing is half the battle, that's two halves, and I'm DONE!!

phew, easier than I thought.. oh, what? crap.. nevermind...

I'll fix that, then should be able to find a leak easier.. (which seemed to come from the H/L valves, but I replaced those, so I have no idea now. unless its in the expansion valve or the condensor got a rock or something, but I can't see any leaks from the grill and don't want to take off the bumper quite yet, as she may want to drive it soon)


Should I replace the whole compressor since the famous tire place said it was shot, or just the clutch and hope its not?? when I turn it by hand, I can feel it compress, so I hope its ok... (I dont believe FTP at all btw)

Thanks for the help so far tho!

holmesnmanny

you tested the coil not the clutch

nsxmatt

The compressor is not going to compress turning by hand, you're just feeling drag.

Replace the whole compressor assembly. I've worked for Honda for 14 years and not once have we replaced just a clutch or coil.

JarvisW

Its compressing because its got nothing in it. I figure its compressing because its acting like when you turn an engine over by hand with the plugs still in it.. it gets tight, then once over the hill, it gasses off and gets easy to turn again for a sec, repeats. Feels just like my grandads old air compressor when you turn the pulleys by hand now that I think about it too..

I'd rather try the $36 coil first personally than a $330 compressor. Shes in College and can't afford that right now.


Yes, I meant coil is burnt in the clutch.

Thanks. I'm going to try the coil tonight, and at least its not that much.. Also doing Expansion Valve, and O-rings from there to compressor and condenser. (dryer after I can be sure it will hold Vacuum)

nsxmatt

Why do you come here for help if you are just going to do the opposite of what people are telling you? You doing even know the difference between the coil and the compressor, you're trying to skimp on putting r134 in it, you've not checked the relay which is most likely sticking and going to kill the compressor again, and you're trying to cheap out and replace just a coil when every master tech says replace the assembly.

Do what you want dude but don't come here asking for help.

JarvisW

I did the relay. I know the difference between the coil, the CLUTCH and the compressor, I just interspersed them.

I also take y'alls advice, just can't afford to do so. Not sure about skimping on r135a, as I have a leak, so, not adding any until I replace o-rings and exp valve.

My goal is to get it thru this next 6 weeks or so, then she can save for a new compressor and condenser.

And I believe its a two way street. If you don't want to waste your time, why bother too? Or do you just like feeling holier than me?

holmesnmanny

nsxmatt pretty much hit the nail on the head but I'm going to be more straightforward, you have yet to listen to anyone in this thread, your logic has been flawed, your troubleshooting has been flawed, you are replacing things that don't need to be replaced, you still have no idea what's wrong, the odds of the coil being bad AND the system having a leak that is too big to allow refrigerant to stay in is really astronomical, considering that ac was apparently working just previously

you really are in over your head on this

nsxmatt

My a/c works.

JarvisW

45f (angle off)
I listened to you Holmes, and took your advice. The clutch was and wasnt in speck, but didn't matter as coil was blown.

YOU guys didnt listen to ME,. I asked for extra advice on checking things like the clutch and Holmes did confirm what I really needed, the middle wire, but the rest of the time you just went off on your own.. Only AFTER that did NSXMatt offer to check the relay (which I had done)

Like I have said, I know how this **** works, just needed a lil model specific advice.

Get off your horses.

And people wonder why this site is loosing views and replys...

And YES, it had a leak AND coil blown.. leak was shrader valves, but coil may be the Famous Tire Shop blowing it to make 3k on parts/tires because shes a chick..

it happens. believe it or not.

nsxmatt

Whatever makes you sleep better at night. Come back when the compressor is locked up so you can accept your "I told you so". I give it two months tops.

Zebra

JarvisW - Did you pull the compressor to replace the coil? I think I have a bad coil in the compressor on a 2008 Civic. I see some people replace the coil and clutch with the compressor left in place or with the mounting bolts loosened. I would go that route, but it appears clearance is the issue. If anything is hopelessly stuck, options run out quickly. A Honda dealership or commercial mechanic isn't going to replace components - they replace the entire unit; time being the critical factor, and the guarantee on the work also being a consideration.

Zebra

How would the tire place have blown the coil?