Annasdad

Hello,
I bought my daughter an 01 civic and everything was fine. Roughly 196000 miles when we got it so the first thing we did was replace the timing belt and everything went well and it drove for 1500-2000 miles. The other day she stopped at a light and it stalled, no sputtering or anything it just cut off, she didn't even realize it had cut off. It's not giving any codes.
Anyways we immediately thought fuel issue because it would turn over but not start. Sprayed starter fluid in and it didn't help. Disconnected the pcv valve and floored it and it started, but stalled at idle. So we thought air flow and replaced the idle air control valve, no luck. We then changed the cam sensor, no luck.
Read that a spark was possible even with a bad crank sensor, so we replaced that. No luck. So I'm basically at a stand stand still.
I am no mechanic at all, but my nephew is decently knowledgeable and has been doing all the work. He is a Toyota guy though and doesn't know of ghosts in Hondas like he does in toyotas.
just looking for some advice. Thanks.

Vtec04

If I am understanding correctly, it runs when you press the throttle but will not idle? If so, see if you can keep it running long enough for it to warm up. It may set a code once it warms up. Once it warms up see if it will idle. Does it run smooth when you are on the throttle? Does it act like this car?

Annasdad

No, it will not start at all now, got it started one time by removing the occur valve and flooring it. It then ran really rough and stalled at idle. That,however, seems to have been a fluke because we cannot get it to do it again.
We don't have the tool to check fuel pressure. We do know the pump is kicking on tho.

Vtec04

The next thing I would do is to see if you get spark. Pull any ignition coil out and stick a screwdriver in the end of it. Position it so there is about a quarter inch air gap between the screwdriver and any unpainted metal part under the hood. Have someone crank the engine and see if it sparks. Also check the blue 15 amp ignition coil fuse in the fusebox inside the car under the steering coloum. Also check the blue 15 amp fuse in the fusebox under the hood labeled as "FI ECU" and report back.

toyomatt84

iTrader: (1)

Do you have a CEL currently?

Annasdad

I'll check the fuses this afternoon and let you know. I do not have a CEL. Numerous people have asked about the green key light, and I counted after I try to start it then turn it off it blinks 4 times if that means anything at all.

Vtec04

The green key light on my 2005 Civic blinks 6 times, so as long as the key light does not stay on or flash when you turn the key on the immobilizer should not be what is keeping it from starting. For it to start, you need fuel, air, spark, correct timing, exhaust flow and compression. You are obviously missing at least one of those. It is most likely not air or exhaust flow, so that leaves fuel, which is possible if the injectors are not getting power to fire, spark, which is possible if the computer is not sending a signal to fire the coils or if the coils are not getting power from a blown fuse, correct timing, which is what I think would be quite possible because you just had the timing belt replaced and the new belt may have jumped a tooth if the tensioner was not correctly installed. That happened to my Civic because the tensioner failed, which caused bent valves. The last thing I will say is until you have evidence that a specific part is causing a problem, DO NOT try to fix it by throwing new parts at it. That gets expensive very quickly and will likely not fix it anyway.

Annasdad

we double checked the timing and it is good. We do get a spark with the screwdriver, could those fuses still be the issue even with that Spark? And believe me if we don't get it figured out on our own today or tomorrow we are taking it somewhere.

Vtec04

The fuse under the hood could still be the problem, but the fuse inside the car could not be blown if you are getting spark. If the timing is correct and you have spark, this will start it: Pull the air filter cover off so you can spray starting fluid directly into the throttle body. Spraying it in anywhere besides directly into the intake manifold may not cause it to start from my experience. Just take all the screws out and lift the cover off. Have someone floor the gas and spray starting fluid into the throttle body without the key on for 1-2 seconds. Then loosely set the cover in the air filter box and see if you can get it to start. If it is a fuel issue it will start and die out after a couple of seconds. If that does not start it, presuming the information you provided about getting spark and the timing being correct is accurate, you have an internal engine issue causing it to not produce compression. Also, how do you know that the fuel pump is coming on?

Annasdad

We did the starter fluid in there and no luck. We know it is kicking on because we took the back seat out and felt it. Crossing my fingers it's that stupid fuse.

Vtec04

Does it sound normal when it cranks, or does it sound like it cranks fast? How did you check the timing? Did you check it like shown in this video? From what you are saying, it sounds like you have a compression problem since the timing is correct and you have spark and starting fluid as fuel. Good luck getting this figured out. Here is a video on lining up the timing marks:

Annasdad

So we changed the fuses and checked the compression and three of four showed low. Put a little bit of oil in plug opening and it started and idled. So we thought change the rings, but it didn't make sense because there was no smoking or sluggishness or anything before it stalled. I was told that a "fuel wash down" from all of the attempted starts dumping fuel in there could've dropped my compression after whatever the initial problem was, and that loss of pressure was making it not start and seem like the replaced part wasn't actually working. After I get it all out back together I'm going to start it again and let run a bit to cycle that oil and get it sealed again. Guy that told me this worked on Acuras and Hindas for a number of years and said he believes that's what is going on because of the lack of smoke and any other evidence of bad rings.

Vtec04

What were the compression numbers? If it was fuel wash, I would think that all cylinders would have had low compression. Fuel wash can cause low compression, but I never saw it lower compression enough to keep an engine from starting. There could be a ring issue if the engine overheated or ran out of oil before it died. Were any of the fuses that you changed blown?

Annasdad

No all fuses were fine. There were no oil issues at all with the car to cause a ring issue and it didn't overheat. The mechanic that told me a wash down could happen has seen it a few times, once on his MDX. He said it doesn't happen everyday, but he is more inclined to think we would have had a warning of some sort with bad rings.

Vtec04

If it was cylinder wash, the car should start and normal now. I hope for your sake that it is fixed.

NDNV

Check for a blown head gasket - common issue with these engines.

Annasdad

UPDATE! We have decided it is either the head gasket, which would be odd considering what it is doing (low compression on cylinders 3,4 AND 1) or it is a cracked head, which also doesn't make sense due to no oil on ground or in radiator. Towing it to a shop today for a diagnosis and repair. Preparing for the worst (replacing the engine) hoping for the best ( not sure what that could even be honestly)
I will update what it ends up being. Thanks so much for everyone that has given me input, I appreciate it.

Vtec04

Don't let the shop rip you off. Do not tell them I think it is the head gasket. They will probably say that it is blown. There would be no reason for the head gasket to blow suddenly for no reason unless it was overheating, which you said it was not. What was the compression in all cylinders? If it was the head gasket is ACTUALLY bad, which I am almost certan it mis NOT, I would throw a replacement motor in it rather than fixing that one because you do not know what caused it to blow. You could have a cracked or warped block or head You can get a low mileage JDM motor on Ebay for a good price. Check these videos out before you take it to the mechanic so you maybe could diagnose it yourself.