09V6coupe

Hello,

I am new to these forums, and hope that perhaps you guys would be able to help me. My wife's car is a 2009 Accord V6 Coupe. In the past 2-weeks she has had the CEL light come on twice. The first time the dealer said they could not get the code because it had cleared by the time they got the car (2-days later). The second time we had a friend pull the code, it was P0303 (misfire in cyl #3).

The dealership this time replaced the spark-plug and listed on the report that the plug had oil on it and needed to be replaced. I was a little taken back by this as the car is fairly new and has about 15,000 miles.

After several hours of researching I stumbled across this site and found the attached post:

https://honda-tech.com/forums/showth...0&referrerid=0

A couple people in that thread seem to indicate that this could be a known issue with the VCM system. Is this really a known issue, the paperwork says "Honda has the issue under investigation. No fix has been found"

As an Audi owner I figured the Honda was a safe bet ;-)

jimlaw3

Hi there,
I have seen this several times on the new Accords,the one I had a misfire on the same cyl.Had to replace valve seals in the rear head.It appears some engines the valve seals were not installed properly allowing oil to seep into combustion chamber,therefore fouling out the plug.

MSchu

what paper work are you referring to OP?

I dont your car is operating in LIMP mode(which is what may have been happening oin the other thread). If you have a bad seal, it's not usual and customary. Have it replaced by your dealer.

09V6coupe

The work order from the dealership.

All they did was replace the plug... so if we see the same problem again, I need to push them to look at the valve seals...

Thanks for your help/feedback

09V6coupe

I want to warn you guys about this problem... They replaced the spark plug about 3 weeks ago, and the car is having the same problem again. When I pressed about this being a known problem, the dealer said they were aware of this problem.

My biggest concern is that it took about a year for the first plug to bite the dust, now its taken only 3-weeks... makes me concerned the problem is accelerating.

LPED

How is your oil consumption ?
Is it using a lot of oil in few 1k miles ?

09V6coupe

Honestly, I should have checked that last night. I was so busy trying to get the car into service at the dealer that I forgot to check.

The car was running like crap, pretty much how you would expect a car that is misfiring to run actually... I am trying to have some patience with the dealer, but they don't seem to be trying very hard. This will be the 3rd visit in less than 30-days.

Who knew Honda would fail me, after I talked my wife into it...

GoLowDrew

No insight to add. Just a question. Can you describe your type of driving for the past 15K miles?

What percentage of city/hwy do you drive?

09V6coupe

Its my wife's car... I would say passive, but not grandma style :-)
50-miles round trip for work, all freeway. Heavy traffic on the return (stop and go average 30mph if I had to guess (1hr for 25miles)).

I rarely, if ever drive the car. I would think it spends a large portion of its time in Eco-Mode which is one of the things I have been thinking. Not clear to me if the bad plug is in one of the 2 cylinders that is off at highway speeds (or one of the three off as she creeps along in rush hour).

GoLowDrew

Related question, which is cylinder #3? If I recall the pic of the cylinders, during 6-4-3 model, two cylinders never turn off, and one always gets turns off in both 4 and 3 mode.

09V6coupe

I would love it if someone could answer that... I just assumed that cyl-3 is one of the ones that deactivates.

Oh, the car goes in Thursday afternoon (if not before then)... I'll keep the post updated.

::Update::
6-codes now and the CEL is now staying on (rather than flashing).
p0303 - Cyl-3 misfire
p0306 - Cyl-6 misfire
p0300 - Random cyl misfire
p0303(pd)
p0306(pd)
p0300(pd)

Picked up a car from enterprise, will ask the dealer if I should drive it in (1.5miles) or have it towed.

LPED

Here some info on gen8 accord s , go down 2/3 of page for VCM operation .

http://corporate.honda.com/press/article.aspx?id=4106

09V6coupe , get that checked out , you don't want to let that go as it will shorten cat's and O2 sensors lifespan .

09V6coupe

Anyone know which are cylinders 3 and 6 in this image? I'm curious if they are the ones that are off during VCM eco modes.

LPED

the rear bank is 1, 2, 3 cylinders and front bank is 4, 5, 6 with firing order of 142536 .
So to answer question those cylinders are last of each bank on the left (looking at the engine, nearest to tranny/belhousing )

09V6coupe

Interesting, so 3 would be one that shuts off in both VCM (eco) modes...
But 6 should never be off... so much for my theory that the VCM cylinders were the problem.

Dealership has the car now, they assure me they will take there time to try to figure out what the problem is. Fingers crossed.

09V6coupe

The dealer called, a new short-block has been ordered. I wonder if this means the valve seals will be replaced also.

90sedan

That's good. The short block will fix the issue.

I've seen a fair number of these v6 accords of this generation with oil consumption issues or mis-fires. The first one we had in the shop, we were told to replace the valve seals, it eventually came back with the same complaint. After disassembling the block, the cylinder with the oil on the plug had incorrectly installed piston rings. Each ring gap should face a certain direction, all differently to prevent oil from seeping past. These rings were all lined up together.

To make a long story short, this mess up in the engine assembly process has been costing Honda thousands of dollars.

Rest assured that you issue will be fixed and you will regain trust in Honda.

LPED

Short block = block, crank/rod and piston assembly .
Long block = short block with heads and sometimes IM .

Make sure they check out the valve seals when heads are off to make sure there ok .(they should be able to tell by looking at valve head for oil deposits .

09V6coupe

Thanks for the comments guys... I figured this was a bigger problem than the dealer let on when the paperwork said Honda had the issue under investigation...

I will check with the tech when he calls back to make sure they check the valve seals also. Sounds like the oil is not coming from the valve seals but rather the piston rings if its the same issue sited by '90sedan'.

Thanks again guys. I have my fingers crossed for a clean fix after they get this done.

09V6coupe

Small update. They have the new block, and they sent the head off for an inspection.
:-)

DCRB

dang a new short block at only 15k miles? that's a serious manufacturing flaw... i would hope that having this kind of work does not reflect the resale of these accords to harshly.

o/p, it's good to hear that your dealership is actually helping you fix the problem, as apposed to just blowing you off.

LPED

Not really ,thats how dealers work ,most times once a part is known bad instead of stripping the whole engine apart and just replacing whats wrong. They will replace whole short block ,its faster that way and probably send back old short block to honda .

mtownsi

yea the rea cylinders 1,2,3, plugs get fouled from the valve seals leaking. the valve seals will need to be replaced. we have seen this on 2010 accord v6s with only 6k on them

09V6coupe

Head was sent off for testing. Apparently all was well, no problems found on the head at all. So it looks like it was just the piston rings after all.

We picked up the car last night from the dealer. They had done 100 miles to check for problems, so far so good.

09V6coupe

Spoke to soon... about 50miles and less than 24hrs and the light is on for P0847 (P0847 - Short in 3rd Clutch Transmission Fluid Pressure Switch Circuit, or 3rd Clutch Transmission)

Starting to smell like a lemon...