mushmash

Following timing belt replacement on the 2002 4 cyl VTEC, the engine spins, no sound of any firing!

(There is a 20 sec youtube with this exact sound.)

All went back together fine. New Denso plugs, but old plugs don't work either. The old belts had not failed; very good condition. This car worked fine until we fixed it!

Crank position sensor wire fault?

Any ideas fine as we are heading into disassembly mode again.

MAD_MIKE

Did you check for spark at the plugs and the fuel injectors firing as well as fuel pressure at the fuel rail?

mushmash

We have fuel and no spark. Not sure why.

New cap and rotor, resistances in the coil OK.
12 V at the primary from the ignition.
12 V at the ICM.
No blown fuses.
Crank shaft sensors test OK from the connector below the PS pump.

gphilippi

Maybe the problem is exactly the point of the engine. The pulleys have a precise regulation that, if not done correctly, the car does not work.

mushmash

Yes, we lined all the marks up exactly. We were very careful not to rotate any of the gears when we had the old belt off.

The crank position sensors were not touched and I removed the bottom belt cover to reinspect them, just to be sure. The diagnostic resistance tests on the sensor are in range.

There is no spark at the plug or the distributor point. There is 12 V at the incoming distributor terminals, but no pulsing of a test light, so we replaced the igniter with an OEM Hitachi unit. No improvement.

Still no spark and no spark at the coil outlet. The electrical coming into the coil is hot, but does not pulse when cranking.

Could this be upstream of the igniter? Or if the coil, other methods to check the coil?

Thanks for any help.

gphilippi

Maybe that's really the ignite. Maybe it could be helpful: https://www.justanswer.com/honda/4om7h-94-honda-accord-no-spark-coil-distriburator.html

This one either:
https://repairpal.com/no-start-due-to-ignition-switch-failure-313

holmesnmanny

check the fuses in the engine bay fuse box assembly for continuity

mrau92me

Well, did you figure it out? I'm having a no-start issue after I changed my timing & balancer belts, wp, & oil seals. My starter motor is spinning but does not seem like it's engaging the flywheel.

mushmash

Nope, not yet. I haven't had time to get back after it. But the next step is to check compression to see if the belt installation and engine timing is OK.

I have followed the spark issue back to the igniter and have not been able to test the igniter input wire yet. Got this gizmo that helps pierce a single wire to test for signal into the igniter. The input to the coil is hot, but it does not pulse as the diagnostic checks indicate.

One question I don't know the answer to is whether an OBDII tester will register an rpm signal from the crank sensor when you are trying to start the engine. Going to try that too.

Not sure how to test the crank position sensor output. The resistances at the connector are within the specs indicated in the Haynes manual.

MAD_MIKE

Depends on the resolution of the OBDII sensor, some will pickup minute changes, others are pretty crap.

Don't pierce the wire, just backprobe the wire in the connector with a T pin and connect your meter to that.

mrau92me

OK, forget what I said about my car's starter not engaging the flywheel. My daughter watched the crank pulley last night & said it IS turning. Previously, I was convinced the starter pinion wasn't engaging the flywheel based on the sound/feel (seemed to turn faster & higher pitch). Now I'm definitely interested in this thread since we have very similar problems.

To see if my scenario would repeat itself, I got the #1 piston back at TDC before I put the valve cover back on & tried to start it. Also, I checked the resistance of both CKP/TDC sensors via the 4-pin connector by the timing belt cover (1925 ohms, within spec).

The starter & crank shaft still seem to spin fast, but the engine won't fire up and run. I'm wondering if a fuse is blown. I wonder if initially I didn't re-seat the CKP/TDC connector fully. After I checked the resistance last night, I heard a pronounced CLICK when I put it back together that I don't remember hearing the first time. Previously, I did notice the connector's bracket likes to flex instead of letting the connector halves snap together.

mushmash

There are several Youtube videos and the link from above: https://www.justanswer.com/honda/4om...riburator.html, that guided my troubleshooting work. All about the same.

But the biggest question is: what could we have changed? The car ran fine before we started. We did disconnect the CKP/TDC sensor connector, as necessary to move the cable out of the way, as well as moving the distributor cap. But we ran a check on the sensors resistance, which was all in spec, according to the Haynes manual. Each of the other ignition component resistances are in spec as well.

Nevertheless, we replaced the igniter with a new exact Hitachi branded unit; no change. A new rotor and new distributor cap, which looked OK, but no change there either. The wires are all ok. New plugs. Still no spark at the plugs or distributor.

I'll be checking the compression when I get a tool just to verify the engine timing has no issues. I do not know how to check the CKP/TDC sensor output, which would be a welcome comment from anyone with demonstrated experience in this area.

Good luck.

tech8

Check the ground wire and connection at G101.

mushmash

Thanks. A little oil, but not much corrosion, etc. It is clean now. And the IAT check out in spec.

The ground on the engine mount is removed as part of this, but it is fine too. Here in Austin, we don't suffer from much environmental corrosion.

mrau92me

I’m wondering if you need to do what I did to get my car running. Cycle the fuel pump several times by turning the ignition switch on and off several times without cranking the engine, then try cranking it. Make sure your battery is strong first.

If you are using a spark tester like I have, it can be deceiving because it won’t fire rapidly like you think a spark plug will. I have to keep the starter engaged & turning the rotor in the distributor so the spark tester can build up a charge before it will generate a spark.

Before I finally did the above, my car sounded like the starter wasn’t engaging the flywheel, but it was. I also saw a youtube video Saturday of a ’97 Accord like mine that had a broken camshaft, and when he was cranking it, it sounded the same as mine. At that point, I was convinced that I had taken too long doing the timing belt (we had a lot going on) and let the camshaft get dry of oil and that it had broken the cam shaft upon trying to start it after the job. I went straight out and pulled the distributor cap and expected to find that the rotor wasn't spinning (but it was). Note: I did find a good bit of a gray powdery substance inside the cap (what's up with that?)

Good luck.

Mason Edmison

You should be able to verify the Crank Position sensor is working correctly by back probing one of the injectors to see if the test light pulses. If it does not pulse, then its either a problem with one of the position sensors or the PCM is not signalling

The test light fuel injector test is shown here -
In regards to testing the position sensors, here is a good resource - Part 4 -The Basics of Crank and Cam Sensors and How to Test Them.