nothing_shocking

First off, what the HELL was Honda thinking when they put these things in here? This is one time where they completely failed.

Second, does anybody have any pictures that would help with the replacement of these things? The one in the FAQ section doesn't have pictures anymore.

Finally, just a side note, would it be possible to just coat the inside of the spark plug tubes with high temp silicone instead of going all the way in and replacing the seals? The red stuff is good to something like 600* and I know it doesn't get anywhere near that hot in there, but would the oil cause the silicone to fall apart?

redbull-1

The images were re-posted on pages 2 and 3 of the link in the FAQ.

night

silicon is not a fix.

just pull the rocker assembly up. takes 20min to change the o rings.

P_Adams

x2
Silicone WILL NOT WORK.
You'll never get it clean or dry enough for it to adhere properly. Do it right and be done with it.

P

nothing_shocking

There's still one thing I can't figure out. How do you keep the cam shaft from popping up without taking the timing belt off? The first few times I read through it, it seemed like all you had to do was leave the bottom two distributor bolts in, but now I'm not so sure...

redbull-1

Here's some info. that might help you.

http://hondatuning.info/category/hon...ord-1990-2002/

Bruce Banner

honda aint' so bad, some cars are worse....

GhostAccord

That's a very nice writeup in that link. I specially like the image that they used. Looks good

nothing_shocking

That's the same exact thing that's in the FAQ link. The part I don't get is "...hold the opposite end of the camshaft down, then reinstall the bearing cap on that end to hold it in place until reassembly..." What exactly is the bearing cap?

redbull-1

I believe they are referring to the camshaft holder that is part of the rocker assembly.

night

why in the hell would you mess with the timing belt.
if you are paranoid put the motor on TDC #2 or 3 and just take the thing off. the belt isnt going anywhere.

edit: with 1 and 4 at top dead, the dist cam slot is vertical and it can let it slide up some.
so put it horizontal and the dist holds the cam. but it really doesn't matter. the cam can lift up and you still just bolt the rockers down the same.
but do it evenly all the way around. and make sure the rockers are not laying on the retainer instead of the valve stem when you bolt it down. it will bend the valve.

accord_raffi

I did not have an issue of with the cam or timing belt moving. Everything was pretty firm for me actually. As for the engine not exceeding 600*F, idk about that. I know combustion on forced induction setups are usually around 1400*F safely. Granted that its for forced induction which means lots of air, the AFR's are rich at WOT to cool EGT's to a safe level to reduce chances of detonation. If tuned right, an N/A and an FI setup won't knock which leads me to believe that both are near the same EGT's. N/A's might be a 100-200 degrees cooler, but not much more than that.

nothing_shocking

But isn't that temp inside the combustion chamber? I mean inside the spark plug tubes. There's no way it could get that hot in there. It would melt the spark plug boots and probably the tube itself.

Still, how does the bearing cap come apart from the assembly? If you have to take it off along with the assembly, wouldn't that mean it's all one piece?

I think I'm going to go with what night said because, so far, that's what I've been thinking to myself would be the most logical option of holding everything together.

accord_raffi

The seal goes into part of the block, not where the wires are. But considering how hot the block gets right at the spark plug tip (the hottest point of the motor), I would assume the block where the seals sit in would get far over 600*F

My entire assembly came out without and problems.

redbull-1

You don't want to take the bearing cap off from the assembly. Leave the bolts in the assembly like in the pictures in the FAQ, so it doesn't come apart. In those instructions, it seems they take off the assembly, then partially put back the assembly only on the other end of the cam (farthest away from the time belt side). Then they replace the seals and then reinstall everything else.

But, I also think 'night' instructions seems the most logical too.

0S2Carbonworks

Rocker Arm assembly seals are fun to change! Keep that oil out

tommy83

I just did my 97 wagon the other night. All seals followed by a valve clearance. Runs like a champ now. The only thing I "winged it" on was tightening the nuts for the valve clearance. Hope I got them tight enough with my little 10mm combination wrench!

I was holding off on this job because of the "cam and timing belt" issue, seemingly needing someone to hold it down, and the instructions talking about putting the bearing cap on the assembly back on the cam... etc. But then I read this thread and just went ahead and did it - slowly and step by step. It was not bad. The cam, with the rocker arm assembly off and timing belt on, didn't go anywhere. Everything went very smoothly without any major hangups. Here's some pics to prove that, at least on this F22B2, the cam doesn't move when you take the assembly off:

Beginning the job - clean the valve cover as best you can:


Under the valve cover:


The cam after lifting off the rocker assembly. Didn't budge.


Rocker arm assembly on the bench. Don't take the bolts out.


Distributor end of the cam:


The old seals:


Old seals out, clean the groove:


The new seals in:

rihirqwq

I accept with information:In those instructions, it seems they take off the assembly, then partially put back the assembly only on the other end of the cam (farthest away from the time belt side). Then they replace the seals and then reinstall everything else.

tommy83

My point is, (illustrated above) there is absolutely no need to do that. At least on the F22B2. I also understand that is is hard to put the rocker assembly back together if you take it apart (which I did not do). Less work = better.

nothing_shocking

good stuff tommy. i STILL haven't got around to doing this though... lol. something always comes up. i'm hoping to get this done sunday, so thanks for refreshing me.

tommy83

It's the least I could to do give back to the thread that got *me* going on it. Good information at this site! I'm looking forward to perusing the other sections. I joined a while back and lurked for a while, but got away from it until recently. (Obviously from my post count). Just set aside some time where you don't have other obligations, take your time and dive in. It's not that bad.

Bad_dude

Do you have to slip the timing belt off to do this?

Thanks.

holmesnmanny

I have an f22a4 and when I did this, I just backed off all valve adjustment screws and after loosening up the assembly itself it came off without any problems. Assuming the f22b2 is the same you shouldn't need to, period.

Obviously when loosening up the adjustment screws you will need to redo your valves after putting the assembly back on. And absolutely do not take off the bolts when you lift the assembly off. Your goal is just to loosen the bolts so that you can lift off the assembly, if you take em out then the assembly will fall apart. After lifting off the assembly, you will tilt it just enough to replace the rings.

http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthre...lug+tube+seals

Bad_dude

"After lifting off the assembly,"
Does that means you take the entire rocker assembly off first?

"you will tilt it just enough to replace the rings."
What do you tilt?

Thanks.

holmesnmanny

Basically you're not gonna be taking off the timing belt. It's not needed. You have to take the rocker arm assembly off to get to the lower tube seals. This leads to your other question.


When you lift off the rocker arm assembly the lower sube seals will be at the bottom, assuming they didn't disentegrate already. You will need to make sure you don't tilt the assembly too much or the bolts will fall out, which is not what you want since the assembly will come apart if you do let the bolts fall out of the assembly. So you will tilt it a lil because the bolts point down obviously, and the seals will be at the bottom of the assembly, and take the old seals off and put the new seals on. You will want to get the new seals a lil wet in oil so that they set fine when you put the assembly back in.

The link I provided gives good detail in the removal bolt sequence and torque sequence when you put the assembly back on. You should follow that closely.