75aces

I'm thinking about doing an H22a swap in my 1996 Honda Accord EX sedan. I'm trying to find out if this swap can be barred in California. I know that the referee is temporarily unavailable to issue stickers. Either way, I'm really considering doing the swap. I'm also trying to find out if my current tranny which is an auto, can be used with the h22a. I would like to reuse for financial reasons. Thanks for help in advance.

loup05

I know plenty of ppl that have gotten their accords BAR'D in california.. they are mostly from socal.. any how. You can use the f22 trans but I don't recomend it.. you will be poping out of vtec

wolfy47

i heard from a REF the laws changed as of feb...also what do you mean by poping out of vtec..the trans has nothing to do with the motor to affect vtec in that way

OP: it might be better to talk to someone who will be testing your car...because as far as i know from talking to a REF the only way you can get a motor legal now is if you transfer all the smog equipment from the donor car, but being that the JDM cars arnt emission legal they are basically impossible to smog now

holmesnmanny

If that were the case then no japanese engine would be able to be imported and swapped in.

75aces

Thanks for the info. What about the ecu? Can I use the one from the prelude or a euro h22. Trying to keep everything under budget.

MAD_MIKE

That's a new one on me. I remember when there was hell to pay if one installed a Japanese engine.

But wait there' s more...
And there you go fellas. Unless its an H22A1 or H22A4 your are technically SOL for an engine change using anything other than the A1 or A4.
I love how the rules contradict themselves.

Do you know what was changed in the laws?

75aces depending on what you want out of your engine, you may or may not want to change the transmission. The gear ratios are different, the H22 trans keeps the H22 in its power band, same as the F22 trans does for the F22 engine.

The H22 trans has shorter gears, this allows for faster acceleration. Keeping the F22 trans will be great for freeway cruising. If you are just looking for the added 42-52HP from the 187HPA1 or 197HPA4 it will be fine.

Does anyone have stock dyno readings of each engine? Does the F22s have more under the curve than the H22s?

wolfy47

can you read my whole post before you make yourself look like an idiot...i mean you even qouted it

if i remember its basically what you qouted from carb, but to add the cat must also be used from the doner car (model, year, ect) thus making jdm motors now illegal ...i think before you were able to use jdm engines as long as you ran the usdm IM and all the other smog stuff

but really i wouldnt trust asking anybody but a ref or carb since there is always that slight chance i things mixed up

accordmatt

lm not positive on smog but u will need a p13-a12 ecu obd2 to run and pass emissions which is costly cuz its rare. jdm also not positive but l would imagine u could but would have to make some mods to work out right

MAD_MIKE

Hmm, I guess the legal way to go JDM would be to do the Engine Swap legally with a CA certified A1 or A4 engine. Get your CARB/REF sticker on the door jamb. And THEN replace the A1/A4 with the A engine. PITA, but that would make it legal to use a JDM H22A in a CA Accord.

wolfy47

not really, because on the stickers they have the exact engine code on there for the engine you got bar'd with

i beleive one way to do it would be to compltele rebuild a usdm motor with internals from the jdm one after you get the sticker

MAD_MIKE

Correct. You have a Bar'd A1/A4 swap the car is legal. And as CARB states...
An Accord with a Bar'd A1 or A4 will now be smogged as a Prelude. And CARB allows the JDM A engines to be installed as replacement engines for the A1/A4. JDM H22A replacing a legal A1/A4 swap, legal. H22A replacing a F22B1/B2 not legal. Since now your vehicle will be treated as originally having the H22 rather than F22.

wolfy47

whoa, i never thought of it that way and thats a pretty cool loop hole...but now theres another brick wall because arnt most if not all H22A's OBDI because the op's car is OBDII thus making it non legal again???

75aces

That's alot to consider. But I wonder, is CARB still issuing stickers currently? Because my plan is to stay obd2. The H22 from 96 and up prelude all have immobilizers? I would like to use an Lude si with auto.

wolfy47

all 97+ have an immobilizer, 96 ecu is the only one you can use

holmesnmanny

Try making a point instead of just saying something random and acting like you said something smart.

Secondly, I've made the argument one would use when they try to get a car bar'ed in CA. ...

https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-accord-1990-2002-2/so-ive-been-thinking-about-swapping-jdm-h22-my-91-accord-re-carb-legality-2839985/

If you couldn't use an h22a engine even to swap into a honda prelude, then they wouldn't be able to import them. Last time I checked h22a's are NOT california engines. If you can put an h22a into a prelude vtec engine then you should be able to do the same to another car provided you have CA emissions equipment on it, which is what you would have if you swapped your prelude emissions equipment from an a1/a4 onto an h22a.

Unfortunately I haven't been able to get my car bar'ed because I still haven't been able to save enough to replace my cat that had taken a dump after all of the coolant leaking in and subsequent clogging/rusting/breaking. There is no logical reason why you can't do it. Any ref that says no is just making up his own reasons and not going by the guidelines set forth by the BAR.

holmesnmanny

If you're in CA, then you must stay obd2 since that's what your car was made for. Your problem is that your car is an auto. You would have to find a way to convert to a manual since you can only use a manual ecu since US h22a1/4's didn't use an auto ecu and you have to use the manual ecu.


You would also need an obd2 oil pump and wire in the vtec and cps sensor.

wolfy47

there you go again not reading

if this is also aimed at me then i guess that REF must of went on that site that ca.gov site that was posted and must have changed that to????

but i will ad that if you do it the way madmike said about bar'ing a A1 or A4 then you can get it legit

holmesnmanny

For some reason certain ref's appear to have different ideas as to what is allowed and what isn't.

I believe, and I'm not 100% sure so this is just a guess, that mike is referring to the fact that there has been some kind of change which will not affect cars that have already been bar'ed.

wolfy47

i know what you mean about refs but i feel that this guy knows his stuff since everything he has told me is on the website and he takes care of a great majority of hondas from what i have heard from his assistant

mike means that once the car is bar'd with that engine than it is smoged as a prelude and is no longer concidered an accord, which is where the part i talked about comes in where all the smog equipment from the doner car must be swaped over (cat, intake manifold, ect)...so now your car is basically a prelude in a accord shell, the H22A is a replacement engine for a prelude thus making you legal able to swap it as long as you keep all the smog equipment from what was used when bar'd

now i really dont know if that is true but it seems like it could be a loop hole

holmesnmanny

I'm going to rehash an old post I made....

When they say CA requirements that should only mean that it needs to have all the smog components that a CA car would have. To say that if the engine wasn't offered in the US then it isn't allowed doesn't make a whole lot of sense since the H22A motor itself wasn't offered in the US yet it's still fine to swap it into a USDM CA prelude as long as you swap all the CA smog components. Yes, you can say well the H22A is "functionally" the same as the H22A1 but that's not the point. The point is you can't say it has to be a CA certified engine then say it's ok to use a Japanese motor unless you can in fact use a japanese motor in any car that can handle it and utilize the same smog components. If you're gonna say it's ok to swap into a prelude then it should be able to swap into any car that can handle the engine that has all the prelude smog parts installed as well.

Certified simply must mean it has the CA smog components and will pass the BAR visual.
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MAD_MIKE

Although I agree that if the A is legal for replacement in an A1 car, then skipping the B1/B2 to A1 swap would make sense. Why bother with this added step. Well that's the law, and for good reason. Installing CA certified components into a CA certified vehicle would be the correct way to do it. If everything is done right it will pass smog no problem. What CA is doing is eliminating any variables. It's not that CA regulators are trying to make it a PITA for us, its for the different makes/models that are out there. They just want to see some competence and compliance. Jump through the hoop.

Of course the best thing do to, would be to call up your local Ref station and ask, if they would have issue with BAR'n a car that has the A engine rather than the A1.
Correct. This is why I think CA regs have the wording as it is. You want a swap, fine, use a Cali drivetrain. You want to use a JDM engine, fine, but it can only go into a vehicle that had the USDM variant of that engine already installed and certified.

Oh and AFAIK didn't Preludes come with the H22A1 til '96 with the last of the bull nose models. Then received the A4 with the '97-'01s.

93DB1GSR

i personally have swapped a 94 b18c jdm engine into a 91 integra and reffed it in california, all i had to do was have all the emmisions stuff off of the 94-95 us california gsr integra, ie the cat, ecu, and all sensors etc, was actually pretty easy.

nus_dogg

All I heard is that you'll need everything from that year Prelude like EGR, ECU, and OBD2 emission crap, etc over to the H22 that you're going to put in to pass.

wolfy47

a few years ago you were able to bar a jdm motor into a a car...but like i said before in this thread time have changed and so have the laws

but yes if you do everything right its not hard to bar a motor

94dxcoupe

If you want to keep it auto, simply use your accord tranny and locate a 97+ prelude automatic ECU. HA Motorsports is now offering immobilizer removal on the Prelude ECU's so you can use it: http://www.hamotorsports.com/immobil...l-service.html

For CA smog, simply make sure all of your vacuum routing, etc is setup on your accord exactly as it is on the Prelude. (should be very similar)