bzmotoninja1983

OK, I have used the search button high and low.
I have a 90 Honda accord. It used to be mine, sold it, the next owner swapped in a f22b1 block with a h23 head. From what I have read it is now a "G23" combo. That being said, I have read just about every thread there is regarding this setup. The previous owner broke the timing belt and now I have it again. Every timing belt he has tried, I helped, has not fit right. I.e too short, just right but wrong teeth, too long.....Ada yada yada. From what I have researched, it has the manual tensioner. I am not sure what timing gear is on the crank, I also know its got adjustable can gears.
Just wondering if anyone has an idea on what belt should work. I/we did not build the motor but from what I can tell, it looks like most of the pictures I have seen, it looks like the right setup. Also, I have no idea where the old belt has gone off too.

bzmotoninja1983

Questionable bump.

GhostAccord

It's not a G23 with a 2.2L block, besides I detest the fact that people labeled these hybrid engines G anything. There is already a legitimate Honda G series engine. Pet peeve of mine...sorry!

Anywho back on topic. When the guy did the swap did he change out any of the F22B1 timing gears for the H23 gears? They have different tooth counts and it makes a difference.

bzmotoninja1983

sorry. i am a little un educated about the whole series of what it becomes with a+b=x.


as far as i know, i think the builder did use the components from the engine that the head came off of. i am unsure about the crank gear. i will tell you though, the h22/h23 timing belt(i think they are the same) is about an inch short. the guy that owns the car now(till i get it back) says that someone told him that a lower gear off a D series will fit. it was all running before. he was going to get the numbers from the belt but forgot about it, then it shredded.
he is trying to catch the guy he got the motor from but it has been hit and miss. what motor should i grab a crank timing gear off of?? would the water pump make a difference? i have seen the tensioner and can confirm it is not the weird looking automatic tensioner, but the manual tensioner based on what i have seen from parts at AutoZone.

again, sorry for being uneducated, and thanks for some insite into my akward situation

GhostAccord

What year is the F22B1 block? Are the TDC and CKP sensors mounted to the oil pump housing or are you using the H23 distributor with the sensors inside it? If the sensors are in the distributor you can use an H23 timing belt drive gear and guide plate and an H23 timing belt. The 20T F22 water pump gear should be fine.

bzmotoninja1983

unsure of the year of the block. IIRC he might have said that it was from a 97?
TSC AND CKP sensors? what are those? i will have to look at the OP housing to check. and as far as the Distributor, all i know thus far is that it has an internal coil. that may or may not be the distributor that was on the old F22Ax motor that came out of there. i will find out more info. kinda hard as the guy that has it right now works at night and i have a day job.....



nvm on the sensors question. googled it.

bzmotoninja1983

ok, just got the text. distributor is off a prelude h23, internal coil. asking now what years things are from


ok, h23 head is a 93 and f22b1 block is a 97

GhostAccord

So is he using the TDC and CKP wired from the H23 distributor or the OBD2 F22B1 block? (oil pump housing mounted)

If he is using the B1 block sensors you won't be able to use the H23 timing belt drive gear. The OBD2 F22B1 timing belt drive gear has two triggers built into it that the TDC sensor reads. The H23 gear does not have these two triggers. As stated before, if he is using the sensors from the distributor you can use the H23 timing belt drive gear.

BIENDIESEL

1, u have a 90 accord which is obd1
2 it uses a h23 head
3 its a f22 block
4 the non v tec block uses a manual tensoner
5 u should use the h23 water pump, unsure how many teeth are the f22 and h23 water pump teeth are
6 use the h23 timing belt pulley to be safe and use the h23 timing belt.

note... on the manual tensoner all the way to the left if ur facing the timing belt side, u will see a paperclip like looking that has a 10 mm small bolt to it.... i grinded the top of it a few mm so that i can push that tensoner down more to slip in the belt from up top and it have to be as close n tight as possible, means have a 14 mm wrench ready t0 adjust ur cams peefectly lined up to where ur gonna slip the belt on and turn left or right slight just so it slides on but make sure the crank is top dead center with aligened, lil triangle pointing exatctly at 12 o clock position on the oil pump.
the manual tensoner i forgot to mention that has a 10mm bolt to it, must be pushed down max so the belt have just enough slack to get the belt on..... after the belt is on as above instruction. losing up the 10 mm bolt and rotate ur crank around back to tdc and see if everything is align back, it can be off a mm or 2.

check slacking on both side of the belt where water pump is and near the alternator.... then put a flat head screw driver under the manual tensoner and push up slowly n lighty, u will see the belt tighten up and then tighten the 10 mm bolt and whole manual tensoner pulley with the 14 mm wrench and ur done.
\
thats all i had to do when i used the f22 to make my h22a manual after i have broken 9 auto tensioner. Why didnt i use the h23 manual one? bc this was done over 10 years ago when no one even done a h22a swapped accord and it was rare around 1999 and it was left over parts from my stock cb9 motor but it worked, it was a super tight fit like a condom, till this day i still rock my f22a manual tensioner on my h22a and h23 v tec

GhostAccord

The H23 water pump has 19T and the F22 has 20T. Does the H23 water pump fit on the F22 block? The mounting bolt holes aren't the same. There are two that don't line up. I thought that if you were going to use a 19T gear you would have to remove the 20T from the F22 water pump. Then press the 19T gear onto it????

bzmotoninja1983

OK, now I am starting to see the whole picture. I really need to get over there and take some good pics. It was dark in the garage when I tools pics with my phone. It has a flash but I have to guess then take a pic to see it. I'm going to get over there Sunday when I'm off with my spot light to get some detailed pics. Also, from what I can tell from the pics I shot already, its not using sensors in the oil pump area but I really didn't look all that good.


BZzz

BIENDIESEL

if u think about it, the water pump souldnt really matter most bc if u held any honda timing belt, the teeth on the belt are all the same size n thickness of the hump, just the belts comes with more or less teeth/bumps to it. the belt does not wrap around the water pump like it does with the oil pump timing belt gear at the bottom.

GhostAccord

If that is the case why use the H23 water pump as you suggested?

bzmotoninja1983

BIENDIESEL

Easy for him to remember theb mix matched parts

bzmotoninja1983

I will have more info hopefully by Tuesday. I'm off that day and will be able to take some pics with light, be able to talk more with the owner(will be me soon enough) and speak to the local honda-freak who may have built the beast.

Also, how many teeth should I have for the lower gear? F22 and h23

Bz

Found some I took the other day....













I will get better pics later. Its too late right now...... also, the timing/balance tensioners are off of the motor right now. Ohh yeah, there is some grease like stuff in the timing belt area that is kinda silver like....almost like graphite. Hard as a mother to get off of yourself. How should I go about cleaning this? Simple green and purple power or should i use some dollar store "Awesome"?

GhostAccord

This man knows his shyte about hybrid H & F series engines. FYI, not too confuse you but the H23 manual timing belt tensioner is the same part numbers as the F22. You probably already have them installed on this block.

bzmotoninja1983

All I have to do now is go get a h23 lower gear and swap it so i can get the timing set and roll...... :drool:


Bz

bzmotoninja1983

Does anyone know the teeth count on the f22b1 lower gear vs the h23 gear?

Thanks,
Bz

GhostAccord

17T and the F22 has 20T

Count the number of teeth on the cam gear and divide it by 2.


Edit,
I think I may have just spotted a possible issue. The aftermarket cam gears, shown in the pictures above, that are on that head must be for an H22. They have 40T not 34T like the H23. If your using H22 gears then you will have to use an H22 belt, not an h23 belt.

Count the teeth on both of the cam gears and the crank timing drive gear. They should be 2:1 (40T Cam gear : 20T Crank gear or 34T Cam gear : 17T Crank gear)

bzmotoninja1983

OK. Will count teeth top and bottom GHOST. I know the came are crowed. Was unsure of gears tho. I read almost all can gears for Honda's are interchangeable. I am known to be wrong. Thanks,


Bz


EDIT: after counting gears from my own pics, I gather that's a 34 tooth can gear. Basing it on teeth between two bolts and multiplying by 5. It looks like 34/35 teeth. I will have to actually put meh hands on it tho. Hopefully the teeth match up top and down bottom

GhostAccord

Yeah there is quite a bit of misinformation out there. Sure they are interchangeable in that they will physically bolt up to the camshaft. However, they need to have the proper tooth count that matches the crank gear or your timing will be off. Or in this case the belt may not fit.

bzmotoninja1983

Right, so now all that's left is to count the teeth on the lower gear. If they don't match up, it wouldn't have run before, right?..... by the way, hows your ITB going? Still pondering the secondaries?

GhostAccord

It might have run but it would have been a few teeth off for timing, so it wouldn't have run at it's best. Probably why he broke a timing belt in the first place. I have run timing belts for 180,000km before changing it. It still looked new when I took it off.

As for the ITB's they are undergoing a major transformation right now. I upgraded to an F22A6 head and this has changed a few calculations. The secondaries are no longer in consideration. The GSX-R1000 throttles and old runners that I had fabricated are actually smaller than the intake port openings. That is somewhat of a terrible intake design.

I have opted for a larger set of bike throttles and runners. Even though I have to do all of the fabricating work on the new throttles and runners. It's still cheaper and funner than paying $2K for ITB's. Specially when I can get a set of bike throttles and aluminum tubing for under $400. I can also weld aluminum myself now.

BIENDIESEL

the whole confusing part of this to begin with is he rebought his car back with a diff motor and whole ever put his car together just threw some stuff on and leaving him to guess what is on it to make it work right.
the part u will never have to swap or change is the manual tensioner, i never used a f22a oil pump so im guessing h23 water pump may not fit the f22a oil pump so there put the f22a water pump on it since the belt does not wrap around the water pump, just less then half of it on the right side. use the h23 lower timimg gear if ur using the h23 timing belt and h23 cam gears. it couild be so many wrong mix n matches that doesnt work like using h22a belt on a h23 part with a h23 cam gears or h22a cam gears with h23 belt and so on so i would prob start all over n use all h23 parts and f22a water pump as pirate stated before.

the metal looking liquid seems like sludge with tiny metal parts like on automatic tranny magnetic drain plug.