accord96lx

The problem now:
After cleaning the EGR passages the Accord now is revving from 1500 rpm to 2500 rpm back and forth in park. Where did I go wrong, (besides trying to do this in the first place) and what could now be the issue?

The problem before:
I have a 96 accord 4cyl that has been running kinda rough at idle, vibrations in the console and all without running ac.


Ive replaced motor and transmission mounts, cleaned the throttle body,Idle Air Control Valve, Fast Idle Thermo Valve and it was still vibrating a good bit - not horrible but it would rattle the interior.

I was reading that the EGR could also cause some issues, not the idling so much but surging. So I figured what could it hurt since it is usually gummed up pretty bad, and with 300k on it I could do this with the instructions in this video


Anyone able to help me with this?

MAD_MIKE

Recheck your work.
There is probably a vacuum leak, either at the EGR manifold or a vacuum line, or you may have switched vacuum lines causing a routing issue.

Spray some Throttle Body cleaner around the EGR manifold and see if that affects the surging. If not, recheck all the vacuum lines for correct routing and/or damage.

If you did as Eric did and removed the injectors, rather than just leave them in the intake, you may have rolled or damaged an O-ring. Again spray TB cleaner around the base of each injector, if there is a slight change to the idle issue then most likely the O-ring is not sealing correctly.

Personally, I prefer the writeup in the Accord FAQ on how to clean the EGR ports on a 94-97 CD Accord. The injectors are left in situ while the rail is removed. There is a slight loss of fuel when the rail is removed, but no chance of allowing any crud to fall into the engine at the injector ports. Also the O rings are fuel reisstant so non-silicone chassis grease would be better. If any sillicone passes through the engine it may contaminate(poison) the O2 Sensor or worse the Catalyst.

accord96lx

Thanks, I'll go out there and recheck.

Here are some pics from the process if if helps to diagnose

Just pulled out




I cleaned all these off with carb cleaner after this pic

Here is the gasket




Then I cleaned it



Thyen I gound out all the manifold ports with a screwdriver and shop vac'd them

accord96lx

Sprayed carb cleaner around the EGR manifold and it did stop the surging, does that I mean I have stripped the gasket after the cleaning I gave it? I dont think I installed it incorrectly the big hole was to the upper left as I was facing the windshield.

When I scrubbed off the top lid part of the EGR manifold I used brake cleaner and a scotch pad green one to get it this clean



Should I have put some gasket sealant on it?
Or do I now have to buy a new part #17
http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...NTAKE+MANIFOLD

holmesnmanny

The reason you spray carb cleaner around the intake is to find the source of the vacuum leak. When you hit the suspect leak it will change the rpms indicating that there is a vacuum leak at that particular spot/area.

Your goal is to find the leak/leaks. Keep in mind it could be multiple leaks. Try again. This time keep an eye on the rpms/sound of the engine as you spray.

accord96lx

While spraying carb cleaner at the EGR chamber(honda part 17145-P0A-000) it did reduce the rpm's and steadied out.

Does that mean a I have to replace the gasket part # 17146-P0A-004

Or can/should I apply gasket sealant to that gasket portion of the chamber I potentially overcleaned?

afnan

Carb cleaner is real bad for rubber items. It makes them expand

accord96lx

Ok, so after rechecking my work better I found that the egr plate was not tightened enough. I tightened all the bolts down and the surging is now gone.

Now I'm back to square 1 though, since the idle is really rough. The dash starts vibrating and anything in the door pockets rattle around.

When I cranked it cold the rpms were at 1000 in park.
Then I put it in gear and it drops to 600.
Driving it around for a few miles and stopping the idle is around 400 rpm.
What can be done to increase the rpms to steady out around 600-700ish?

GhostAccord

Check your timing. plugs, wires, distributor cap and rotor. Do a compression test on the cylinders and check your fuel pressure.

When was the last time your timing belt was changed and your valve clearance was checked? Also when was your last full tune up, spark plugs, wires, distributor cap and rotor?

The factory idle speed should not have to be altered if the engine is running properly. Sounds like you might have a timing issue, fuel issue or a compression issue.

accord96lx

The timing belt was replaced at 198k in March 2006, this is now due. I'll need to probably have someone do this vs me doing it. Hate to screw that up.

Heres the rest of whats been done

In May 2012
Serviced at 266k
Replaced the distributor housing, Distributor inner seal, Distributor O-Ring, Distributor Cap, Rotor Cap all Honda parts. Used NGK plugwire set RC-HE62 and NGK G Power sparkplugs.

Replaced the crankcase seals and gaskets with Fel Pro kit. There was oil on the spark plug wires so I removed the crankcase cover and rocker arm assembly and replaced the inner O-ring seals and remounted the assembly. I did a valve lash adjustment on all 4 cylinders and then replaced the cylinder seals on crankcase as well as the crankcase seal.

GhostAccord

Yup, I'd say she is due. Honda's specs on the timing belt are every 100,000 km (60k miles) or 60 months (5 years), which ever comes first. I'd say that you're over the 60 months.

I think when you are talking crankcase you are actually referring to the valve cover. No biggie! At least you replaced them and did the valve adjustment. A lot of people don't bother. Honda recommends the valves be checked every 20k or 12 months.... IMO that is a bit much but hey. I did mine every 40-50 or 24 months.

If you did all that yourself I don't see why a timing belt job would be too hard. Unless you don't have the tools...that would make it a wee bit harder.

The valve cover gasket and upper spark plug tube seals should be replaced and the valves adjusted again with the timing belt job.

How many km/miles on the engine since your tune up? You could pull your spark plugs and see what they look like. It has almost been 2 years that they have been in there. 40k km or 24 months is what those G power plugs are usually good for. Maybe longer under clean operating conditions...less if under dirty conditions.

accord96lx

I'll check out the FAQ on timing belts for a 1996 accord, I do have a decent amount of tools around but I guess its always sounded difficult and since its timing related I'd hate to mess up.

I did buy some new plugs and was going to replace them today. Wondering if I should open up the throttle body and idle air control valve again. I did those both last June and things did improve for a while. Hate to do it again, what a pain!

Here is what it looked like after I cleaned them
https://honda-tech.com/forums/showth...3146496&page=2

The only other thing I wondered is that the crack in the air intake, the long somewhat flexible part that connects to the filter case..it had cracked underneath last June when I tried lifting it out of the way. I duct taped it and the duct tape is lossening. Would this effect the idle?

GhostAccord

If the crack is between the filter element and the throttle body it could cause dirt and other contaminants to get into the intake, IACV, FITV and throttle body. In turn causing a restriction of air flow and a low idle.

holmesnmanny

I totally agree. That's why I never advocate spraying carb cleaner inside the iacv as I've seen numerous times. It's best to just clean the metal filter on the outside and that's it.

Also, the idea here is just to try to find a leak by spraying a fine mist, not to try to clean something by spraying a bunch of it onto something which can cause something to swell up.

OP, did you clean the outside iacv filter ? Also, you could have a bad oxygen sensor(they don't always throw codes) or you could even have a bad distributor bearing which can cause red dust to accumulate around the sensors causing misses at idle. It could even be a bad alternator. You might want to check voltages at idle just to see what's going on.

accord96lx

Next time I will make sure to follow your advice on this, hoping there is not a next time.

Which one is the outside iacv filter? Honda part # 36194-PD2-661 ?
I only cleaned the throttle body, intake manifold and iacv shown in my post here
https://honda-tech.com/forums/showpo...8&postcount=28

All I replaced in 2012 was the distributor housing, Distributor inner seal, Distributor O-Ring, Distributor Cap, Rotor Cap with all Honda parts. There was a slight oil leak in the housing so thats why all was replaced.

I do have a multimeter, where should I check the voltages?..new at this.
I guess I could take it to an Advance Auto and let them check the alternator.

holmesnmanny

Across the battery. Do the test on a cold start as the alternator is working at its rated rpms when testing....1500 rpms.

Just test the battery first when started and the cold start rpms at around 1500. Then turn on the headlights and test again. Then turn on the rear defrogger as well and test again. It should stay above 13.50 or at the very least 13.00 bare minimum. But it should really be at atleast 13.50

You didn't mention if you replaced the oxygen sensor.

accord96lx

I'll give the battery a check although I just replaced it. In fact you guys helped me through that in this thread below.

https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-accord-1990-2002-2/96-accord-lx-not-starting-battery-tested-fine-3183481/

I have not changed any sensors on this 96 accord lx, could that be the contributing to the rough idle? I dont have a code checking device and havent seen any engine lights or anything come on.

On your question about the outside iacv filter, is this not the iacv thats attached to the back of the intake manifold?

accord96lx

Since it was so much fun last year I am cleaning the iacv, I had used this thread before https://honda-tech.com/forums/acura-integra-6/%2A%2A%2Ahow-clean%2A%2A%2A-your-iacv-k-idle-air-control-valve-1575913/ and man do I wish I could just have removed the IACV like was done there. I cannot get my hands behind it to remove those hoses!!!

So after removing the the manifold and all here is what things look like








I plan to:

• Clean out the IACV screen side (with simple green vs carb cleaner)
• Replace the intake manifold gasket
• Spray carb cleaner on throttle body even though it still looks good from last cleaning

The air filter is good and I have ordered a new air hose that connects the filter to the throttle body since mine was torn and the duct tape wouldnt hold.
Are there any other parts that need cleaning/replacing that will help with the idle?
Holemsnmanny, you mentioned the outside IACV filter, is there a different IACV filter thatn the one I have pics of here? If so where is it and how should I clean it?

GhostAccord

That intake and throttle body look really clean, not sure that dirt would be your issue. I'm still thinking vacuum leak.

That is the only filter/screen for the IACV.

holmesnmanny

The egr doesn't work at idle and since you haven't replaced the oxygen sensor, I would swap it out. Even if it's not the root cause, it will be great for your fuel economy. The oxygen sensor is working mostly at idle.

You should get only a Denso as the Bosch oxygen sensors aren't good for Hondas. You can get one cheapest at rockauto.com and make sure to google search for "rockauto coupon code" and enter it at checkout.

I would like to see a video of your idle though if you can provide one.

accord96lx

Is it this oxygen sensor?
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/more...930&cc=1167410

The one on the exhaust manifold?
I was pricing that DENSO part # 2344601 = $30

vs

Majestic honda part # 36531-P0B-A01 = $178

Do I have it right or am I comparing 2 different parts altogether?

my98accordlx

Hello. I am new to this forum and I will like to guess what it is.

I did this job a while back on my 98 honda accord.

After cleaning the egr, and put eveything back together and started the car the rpm when going super high and super low.

I later found out that this there was a vacuum leak that was causing this problem.

I found out what was wrong. Maybe, just maybe this might be your problem.
Look behind the plenum and you will see a cable that was attach to it.
What I did wrong was that i put the cable between the plenum and the bottom part and that was cause the vacuum leak. I remove the plenum, then the cable, then put back the plenum and the cable goes in the top follow by a bolt.

Problem solve.

Please check to see where you put that cable. If is in the middle of the plenum, that will be your problem.

This was my case, just check to see if you made the same mistake I did or not.

accord96lx

Thanks for the tip and welcome to the forum!

First time though Ive heard of Plenum, where is this cable located?

my98accordlx

ooops i miss the fact you have a 96 and mines is a 98 accord.

The cable will be behind the plenum, is a cable that i think is attached there just to make ground. the bolt goes through the top, then the cable and through the plenum body

GhostAccord

I think this wire (cable) connected to the upper intake manifold (plenum) that he is referring to might be the the main ground for the ECU????

The intake plenum ground cable on a 5th gen Accord '94-'97 is located at the end on the drivers side. If that cable was not attached the car would not even start, however if it is dirty or loose it can cause ignition issues.



Ether that or he is talking about the brake booster vacuum hose??? not sure what other "cable" is attached to the plenum? If that was disconnected you would definitely have a vacuum leak, not to mention no power brakes. lol