camshafts
06-03-2004, 10:39 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Location: knoxville, tennessee, usa
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
camshafts
hey guys i am building my girlfriends 94 4dr up and i was wondering what is a good camshaft to put into it i have allready p&p it headers intake h23 itm & tb high flow cat crank pulley and power pulleys
06-04-2004, 10:38 AM
#3
Me Gusta History
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,418
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: camshafts (allmtrdc4)
Actually i've heard about nothing but total crap about Gude.
HOWEVER, what i DO know, is there's this young man called Bisi. He makes 10.37 runs with an F22 and he swears by RSmachines.com Hit them up and see what they can do
http://www.rsmachines.com
HOWEVER, what i DO know, is there's this young man called Bisi. He makes 10.37 runs with an F22 and he swears by RSmachines.com Hit them up and see what they can do
http://www.rsmachines.com
06-04-2004, 10:48 AM
#4
Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Michigan State University, USA
Posts: 7,240
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Re: camshafts (accordselux)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by accordselux »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Actually i've heard about nothing but total crap about Gude.
HOWEVER, what i DO know, is there's this young man called Bisi. He makes 10.37 runs with an F22 and he swears by RSmachines.com Hit them up and see what they can do
http://www.rsmachines.com</TD></TR></TABLE>
might we throw in that its in a crx w/ tubular frame, carbed f22b2......
HOWEVER, what i DO know, is there's this young man called Bisi. He makes 10.37 runs with an F22 and he swears by RSmachines.com Hit them up and see what they can do
http://www.rsmachines.com</TD></TR></TABLE>
might we throw in that its in a crx w/ tubular frame, carbed f22b2......
06-04-2004, 10:56 AM
#5
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Ontario & Alberta, Canada
Posts: 1,344
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
all depends in what money u want to throw in.. with cams... u get what u pay for,, do some research... and pick one that suits ur pricerange and performance needs
06-04-2004, 11:17 AM
#6
Me Gusta History
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,418
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: camshafts (fw190bvi)
But hey, it's an F series boy! Show some pride even if it's not in an accord. Now all the little ricers want to carb their accords----i'd love to see THAT happen
Trending Topics
06-05-2004, 09:15 AM
#8
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ontario, Ca, USA
Posts: 1,792
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: camshafts (fw190bvi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fw190bvi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
might we throw in that its in a crx w/ tubular frame, carbed f22b2...... </TD></TR></TABLE>
Actually, my crx is a full unibody, without an inch cut from it, with a stock hatch and stock windshield. My best time at an event is 10.02@135mph. We have done much better in testing.
You should be proud to own accords. Our F22 makes almost 400 hp all motor.
The only accord cams I have available is for full race applications: http://www.bisimoto.com
For mild street, http://www.webcamshafts.com is your best bet. Talk to Debbie.
might we throw in that its in a crx w/ tubular frame, carbed f22b2......
</TD></TR></TABLE>Actually, my crx is a full unibody, without an inch cut from it, with a stock hatch and stock windshield. My best time at an event is 10.02@135mph. We have done much better in testing.
You should be proud to own accords. Our F22 makes almost 400 hp all motor.
The only accord cams I have available is for full race applications: http://www.bisimoto.com
For mild street, http://www.webcamshafts.com is your best bet. Talk to Debbie.
06-05-2004, 09:48 AM
#9
Honda-Tech Member
Re: camshafts (Bisimoto)
That's great. I was thinking about putting my old F (which has a Gude cam) into a Civic, but still think if I had the money a B or K or H is still a better platform to work with. Why did you stick with the F? Price? To be different and original? It was the only block sitting around? The F looks to be a good light strong motor.
My F22 ran great and strong with a Gude cam... until the AEM cam gear slipped. I didn't do my own work at the time and the mechanic said no harm was done but the motor never felt good again after that. I've yet to open it up or even do a compression or leakdown test on it but I'm sure at least one intake valve isn't sealing. So I really can't say if I was happy with the Gude cam or not, I do remember the motor feeling abnormally strong, but it was only on for 100 miles or so before the cam gear slipped.
My F22 ran great and strong with a Gude cam... until the AEM cam gear slipped. I didn't do my own work at the time and the mechanic said no harm was done but the motor never felt good again after that. I've yet to open it up or even do a compression or leakdown test on it but I'm sure at least one intake valve isn't sealing. So I really can't say if I was happy with the Gude cam or not, I do remember the motor feeling abnormally strong, but it was only on for 100 miles or so before the cam gear slipped.
06-05-2004, 09:57 AM
#10
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 664
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: camshafts (Bisimoto)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bisimoto »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Actually, my crx is a full unibody, without an inch cut from it, with a stock hatch and stock windshield. My best time at an event is 10.02@135mph. We have done much better in testing.
You should be proud to own accords. Our F22 makes almost 400 hp all motor.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
you sir are awesome. sniff...makes me so proud.....just wondering, how much torque does it put out?
Actually, my crx is a full unibody, without an inch cut from it, with a stock hatch and stock windshield. My best time at an event is 10.02@135mph. We have done much better in testing.
You should be proud to own accords. Our F22 makes almost 400 hp all motor.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
you sir are awesome.
sniff...makes me so proud.....just wondering, how much torque does it put out?
06-05-2004, 10:53 AM
#11
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ontario, Ca, USA
Posts: 1,792
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: camshafts (4doorH22)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 4doorH22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That's great. I was thinking about putting my old F (which has a Gude cam) into a Civic, but still think if I had the money a B or K or H is still a better platform to work with. Why did you stick with the F? Price? To be different and original? It was the only block sitting around? The F looks to be a good light strong motor.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I like the F series (non-vtec) for the following reasons:
1. Port angles (higher and superior to the b, h and d)
2. Valve angles (I can get away with designing radical lift cams without the valvehead collision factor of dohcs)
3. Less rotational mass and less friction loss (one cam, instead of 2)
4. Uncharted waters (I love experimenting)
5. Cost (these motors are cost effective)
The head holds the most potential for power. I am impressed with the flow numbers we were able to obtain from a modified stock F22 head. The biggest advantage that dohcs have is the ability to tune lobe separation. SOHCs have to have theose grinded in to change. Once you have the perfect lobe angles, it doesnt matter.
4door, you should perform a leakdown on you motor. It seems that you bent a few valves.
Secksi, my F makes 289 ft/ibs of torque, on gasoline, to the crank.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I like the F series (non-vtec) for the following reasons:
1. Port angles (higher and superior to the b, h and d)
2. Valve angles (I can get away with designing radical lift cams without the valvehead collision factor of dohcs)
3. Less rotational mass and less friction loss (one cam, instead of 2)
4. Uncharted waters (I love experimenting)
5. Cost (these motors are cost effective)
The head holds the most potential for power. I am impressed with the flow numbers we were able to obtain from a modified stock F22 head. The biggest advantage that dohcs have is the ability to tune lobe separation. SOHCs have to have theose grinded in to change. Once you have the perfect lobe angles, it doesnt matter.
4door, you should perform a leakdown on you motor. It seems that you bent a few valves.
Secksi, my F makes 289 ft/ibs of torque, on gasoline, to the crank.
06-05-2004, 02:04 PM
#12
Honda-Tech Member
Re: camshafts (Bisimoto)
Ah, that's right. For a race motor that is going to spend its time in the high range of the RPM scale, VTEC is rather pointless (even a hindrance due to the extra weight and complexity). And of course VTEC is only really good for boosting low end torque (or top end power depending how one looks at it).
The reason I chose the H over the F was for the DOHC. You have pointed out to me one "pro" of SOHC platform I was not aware of: port and valve angles. For the newbies out there that are unaware of the pros and cons of each:
SOHC:
pros:
1) the aforementioned port and valve angles.
2) your aforementioned less rotational mass and less friction loss (although I would add that as the single cam has more lobes, SOHC makes for a heavier camshaft than a (non-VTEC) single DOHC camshaft, but total rotational valvetrain mass is lower for SOHC)
3) less parts (technically more reliable).
cons:
1) unable to adjust intake and exhaust valves independently (but as you've said once you've found your perfect timing, duration and lift it doesn't mater).
2) heavier camshaft due to number of lobes.
3) non-central spark plug location.
4) asymetric intake/exhaust port/valves
DOHC:
pros:
1) centrally located spark plugs.
2) lower individual camshaft mass due to less lobes vs SOHC.
3) independent adjustment of intake and exhaust valves.
4) intake/exhaust valve/port symetry.
cons:
1) more complex.
2) valve angles?
3) higher total valvetrain mass vs. SOHC
Did I miss anything?
The reason I chose the H over the F was for the DOHC. You have pointed out to me one "pro" of SOHC platform I was not aware of: port and valve angles. For the newbies out there that are unaware of the pros and cons of each:
SOHC:
pros:
1) the aforementioned port and valve angles.
2) your aforementioned less rotational mass and less friction loss (although I would add that as the single cam has more lobes, SOHC makes for a heavier camshaft than a (non-VTEC) single DOHC camshaft, but total rotational valvetrain mass is lower for SOHC)
3) less parts (technically more reliable).
cons:
1) unable to adjust intake and exhaust valves independently (but as you've said once you've found your perfect timing, duration and lift it doesn't mater).
2) heavier camshaft due to number of lobes.
3) non-central spark plug location.
4) asymetric intake/exhaust port/valves
DOHC:
pros:
1) centrally located spark plugs.
2) lower individual camshaft mass due to less lobes vs SOHC.
3) independent adjustment of intake and exhaust valves.
4) intake/exhaust valve/port symetry.
cons:
1) more complex.
2) valve angles?
3) higher total valvetrain mass vs. SOHC
Did I miss anything?
06-05-2004, 02:55 PM
#13
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ontario, Ca, USA
Posts: 1,792
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: camshafts (4doorH22)
I beg to differ on 3 of your DOHC pros:
Port symmetry, camshaft mass and sparkplug placement,
So many dohc heads have port profiles that differ from each other. I do not see such casting differences in F heads.
The mass cummulation of 2 cams with lobes that actuate intake and exhaust separately does not negate one camshaft with 16 lobes. The individual cam and sprocket weights are signficant, and the friction loss due to multiple cam journals are nothing to sneeze at.
In regard to spark plug placement, without giving away too much, the position of the sparkplug in the F head allows an ideal "pocket" for a more efficient combustion...when also incorporated with the ideal piston dome design (I love Arias pistons) tons of power can be realized. You will not believe the power loss with a centralized plug on a max dome piston, and how much the charge burn can be hindered upon combustion.
I have said too much!
Port symmetry, camshaft mass and sparkplug placement,
So many dohc heads have port profiles that differ from each other. I do not see such casting differences in F heads.
The mass cummulation of 2 cams with lobes that actuate intake and exhaust separately does not negate one camshaft with 16 lobes. The individual cam and sprocket weights are signficant, and the friction loss due to multiple cam journals are nothing to sneeze at.
In regard to spark plug placement, without giving away too much, the position of the sparkplug in the F head allows an ideal "pocket" for a more efficient combustion...when also incorporated with the ideal piston dome design (I love Arias pistons) tons of power can be realized. You will not believe the power loss with a centralized plug on a max dome piston, and how much the charge burn can be hindered upon combustion.
I have said too much!
06-05-2004, 04:19 PM
#14
Honda-Tech Member
Re: camshafts (Bisimoto)
My looks-go-on-paper logic is that after the intake and compression stroke, the air/fuel mix is (ideally) evenly distributed within the entire combustion volume, and the best place to start the combustion process would be right in the center (relative to bore) of that air/fuel mix. But hey with who-knows-what-kind-of-swirl is going on in a combustion chamber and flame propagation dynamics (like engine knock being the air/fuel mix igniting even before the spark plug fires) being so complex what looks good on paper doesn't always translate to the real world huh.
I would also assume intake and exhaust cycles ideally being equally efficient, hence identical, symetrical intake and exhaust port/angles being a good thing. As you've shown there are always exceptions to the rule.
I would also assume intake and exhaust cycles ideally being equally efficient, hence identical, symetrical intake and exhaust port/angles being a good thing. As you've shown there are always exceptions to the rule.
06-05-2004, 08:10 PM
#16
Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Michigan State University, USA
Posts: 7,240
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Re: camshafts (Bisimoto)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bisimoto »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Actually, my crx is a full unibody, without an inch cut from it, with a stock hatch and stock windshield. My best time at an event is 10.02@135mph. We have done much better in testing.
You should be proud to own accords. Our F22 makes almost 400 hp all motor.
The only accord cams I have available is for full race applications: http://www.bisimoto.com
For mild street, http://www.webcamshafts.com is your best bet. Talk to Debbie.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
my bad.....but regardless, you are god
Actually, my crx is a full unibody, without an inch cut from it, with a stock hatch and stock windshield. My best time at an event is 10.02@135mph. We have done much better in testing.
You should be proud to own accords. Our F22 makes almost 400 hp all motor.
The only accord cams I have available is for full race applications: http://www.bisimoto.com
For mild street, http://www.webcamshafts.com is your best bet. Talk to Debbie.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
my bad.....but regardless, you are god
06-05-2004, 08:17 PM
#17
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 664
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: camshafts (fw190bvi)
haha....i bet when you first started out(and werent so famous ) that if you smoked someone on the track, afterwards when they found out not only did they get beat by a crx, but an all motor non-vtec f series.....**** all of you who doubt the f!!!!
) that if you smoked someone on the track, afterwards when they found out not only did they get beat by a crx, but an all motor non-vtec f series.....**** all of you who doubt the f!!!!
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
