BodyKits NW

So I get one of the blocks I am building back from the machine shop. Were puttin CP pistons 84mm in them, and just boring it a straight 84mm. The shop request though to still have the pistons and spec sheet. I said no problem here is the whole damn box. Clearance should be .0035. So I get the block back right and I am working on the piston to end gap when I find cylinder number 2 a lil loose than the others. The 2nd ring end gap was .026. It was not even close to the .019 I was shootin for. So I went to Ground Zero and put in some JE Rings and they were basically perfect and they gave me room to file to fit where the CP were already way off. So I came to the conclusion that CP sent me the wrong ring set for this motor. That is not really a big problem. I still was weirded out about number 2 being loose. So I asked my boyz at Ground Zero if they would measure the bore size for me. 1,3,4 were at about 83.98. Numer 2 was at 84.06.

84.06!!!!! WTF. That is not even close to spec. That is what, like 2 thousands off. Now I got a set of CP pistons that I can't return and stuck with a block I might have to take up to 84.5 which I don't want to. The block is basically junk now. What would you do? I told the machine shop about this and they are like....The pistons will expand and it will be fine. 84.06? am I just freaking out for no reason. GZ even said that was a lil loose. It would probably work, but that's just not right.

This One

damn that sucks...
They wont work with you?
I would tell them im not interested in them expanding. I want what I asked for. you spent alot of money on the motor and there is no room for errors like this
Its their mistake they should do something

danl

First get a second shop to look at it and document that it is wrong. If it is indeed wrong and you are still 100% sure, then call the better buisness bueru with your documentation. You may feel to inform the machine shop that you are going to do so first and see if you can settle it. If not, call the BBB and let them investigate.

hybrid901

Did they bore each hole to a certain piston? But I cannot see one piston being that much off from the rest, especially a CP with I've always seen to be dead nuts on.

b18bEG

i would go to the machine shop and see what they will do for you... **** you paid them $ they should do the job correctly. if they dont do it then go to the BBB and let them know you are going too.

hulkhb

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by danl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">First get a second shop to look at it and document that it is wrong. If it is indeed wrong and you are still 100% sure, then call the better buisness bueru with your documentation. You may feel to inform the machine shop that you are going to do so first and see if you can settle it. If not, call the BBB and let them investigate.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Exactly.

calib17a

First go to a reputable machine shop to have them verify and document on paper the mistakes. Then let the shop know no matter if they say it will work, one cylinder being loose and off spec is not what you paid for and your not comfortable with it. Request for a replacement block and give them a chance to redo it correctly. If they agree to redo it have them put it in writing as in a new workorder stating a redo. From this point on you want try to get a reciept for all new agreements. If not ask for full refund + a replacement block or the cost of one. If they refuse go to the local municipal court and file a small claims suit against them. They'll either cough up the refund or all else fails the judge will award it to you because of your documentation. At least you have a court date and an amount requested. Forget the BBB you'll just go through red tape and be frustrated because it'll take too long for anything to happen.

BodyKits NW

That is what I plan on doing on Monday. Then giving the specs to CP and gettin a letter from them that the specs are not even close to what is recommended.

I feel they should either buy me new pistons that are a true 84mm and go from there. Depending on the measurements I get on Monday, we will see if even a true 84mm piston will solve the problem. This just sux cause now I have another delay. Then they can rebore and hone. Or pay for that sleeve to be replaced. No matter what, it's a expensive mistake.

BodyKits NW

This sux!

hpfsi

Jeez, sorry for the bad luck - that is definately an unfortunate situation. What kind of "precision" machine shop is okay with fudging a bit on specs? Wtf. If you don't mind, what was the name of the shop? I don't want to go there.

BodyKits NW

B&M Machine. Ground Zero Recommended them. They have done some blocks for GZ, and no problems. That is another reason why I had GZ measure the bore sizes for me. They have experience with this shop. So I am probably going to have them buy me 1 CP custom piston to fit that cylinder.

earl

Actually they missed the proper clearance on ALL 4 cylinders. That is why I only deal with Benson now. No more oops.

Rob Dizzle

what tolerances should everything be for the bore

0.0x ?
0.00x ?
0.000x ?

i need to add tolerance specs to the sleeving article it sounds like

I forgot that its an important thing




Modified by Bob-DC2 at 7:39 PM 1/24/2004

BodyKits NW

Should be bored to 3.307 I believe.

rtype11

honda tolerance based on a new block is +0.02mm/-0.00mm (on 81mm cyl) the service limit is 81.07mm, yeah they are out even on honda spec if they are saying it will still work. let me know if you need more specs - only have for B series stock specs though.

aka010010

can anyone tell me what the BBB can do to a bizz.? i own a bizz. and people tell me theya re going to call BBB and nothing ever happens.

rtype11

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by aka010010 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">can anyone tell me what the BBB can do to a bizz.? i own a bizz. and people tell me theya re going to call BBB and nothing ever happens.</TD></TR></TABLE>
one thing is you wont have their approval and cant advertise using the BBB approved label, also many consumers call the BBB before contracting services for referal or confirmation of BBB approval. in extreme cases I have heard of the BBB acting as "ombudsman" referee in disputes.
so why is everyone calling them about your biz???

BoostedSi

i remember when one of my friends took his block to this shop and they overbored too much as well. They tried finding him another new, well used, block for him. Couldnt find one so they ended up resleeving his whole block for free. The block was ready 3weeks later than expected but they had some really good business ethics, even tho they really shouldnt have messed up in the first place. No one's perfect i guess.

well, good luck with your situation

danl

I know of a case where one cylinder was over honed and stock pistons couldn't be reused. The motor was pulled from the shop because it was taking too long, and the second shop measured the bore before continuing the work and found that it was out of spec. The fix was going .10 over which meant new pistons etc... The first shop provided a lot of parts at cost or a little above to help cover their mistake. Their is more than one way to solve a problem, and jumping the gun almost always ends up causing problems.

Small calims court works, but only if the buisness has enogh money to cover the mistake. You also can't take anything from the shop that they use to make their living for compensation. In pennsylvania I don't think anything over $1000 is a small claim either. In PA the BBB seems to do a good job protecting the customer, allmost too good in some cases. I know of a case where a person (not a friend, someone who I belive has bad ethics) called the BBB on a computer company because he jacked up his power sub and it blew and he wanted a new one. The BBB stepped in and he got upgraded to a better model powered sub.

I've never had to sue anyone or file a BBB claim. I try to settle things on a personal level. However, I always do the documentation and show the other party that I have them by the ***** so to speak, so we are playing by my rules.

Go to your local courthouse monday and see what they suggest. Every state and county in that state seems to handle these things differently.

BodyKits NW

Thanks Guys!

ion_four

FYI, the BBB is kind of a joke...how many times have ANY of you called to check out a business? The Better Business Bureau has no power to fine anyone or punish a business in any way, except to report complaints to people that call their hotline. The number is in the phonebook. The problem is that few people report problems and MUCH fewer check places out prior.

In any case, they might feel SLIGHTLY threatened by that, but I'd just bitch them out, considering there is a reasonably expectation and just tell them that you'll take them to small claims court, if they don't make it right, however that is.

Erik_Pb_Foot

any company that has ever had a begetive dealing with the BBB knows that they areall talk and no action. they can't do anything to a company aside from "Not allow them to use the BBB logo" ooooh nooooo! if the copmany isn't a member of the BBB then chances are they will just hang up IF the BBB calls.

take it back tot he machine shop and make them fix it RIGHT....
how did you pay for the work? CC?
let us know how you do.

BodyKits NW

I paid my company check. I dropped the motor off at a reputable local machine shop. They were actually my first choice then GZ told me that B&M did there machine work. So since they were familiar with sleeved blocks I went to B&M rather than Lou's Machine. I called a friend of mine at the local Honda Dealership and he actually recommended the same people I was going to choose first which is Lou's Machine. They do most of the machine work for them I guess. So today I went there and dropped off the block so they can take measurements of everything to see how far off everything is. When I get the information back I'll go back to B&M with the facts and try to straighten this all out.

azcslef

I would continue with the course of action you are taking, and if B&M won't fix the problem, take them to small claims court. They are usually pretty good about getting things settled. My mom owns a small business, and has had to several times, take customers to court to get payments from people. A word of warning though if something like this happens with a head you're getting ported, or send something off somewhere out of state and decide to settle it in small claims court, you have to go to their location to settle it in the court. So if I were to send a head off to CA and they busted through to a water jacket, but sent it back anyway, refused to replace it, and I wanted my money back, I would have to go to CA and settle it in court there Since this shop is local for you though its not a problem, but just throwing that out there. I hope you get this all taken care of, businesses that don't take care of their customers when a problem arises

Trak_Day

Good luck, I hope everything works out!