agreed. i dont know where bruthaboost is getting his "thinner is better" theory.

but i do have a sudden hankering for thin-crust pizza though. mmmmm.

 

I think everyone missed the caveate, "for equall volumes." Anywho the idea is from Maximum boost. I don't claim it's the gospel on turbos, I just offered its material. Anyhow, I do agree with the reasoning and am I bit surprised some of you all don't see it.

For example, if we an IC with a 6x6 front cross section and 18" deep (ludicris dimensions but humor me). The air at the end of the 18" is going to be warmer than the air in front. You all must agree with this. If you don't, then you are a lost cause. So at the end of the IC where the air is already warmer, the heat exchange can not be as effecient as it is where the air is cooler (at the front of the IC). Thus for indentical volumes , you want the IC with the largest front cross section. In addition you'd want many short rows as opposed to a few long rows. In other words, a greater cross sectional area will always cool faster than a lesser one. If you don't believe me try it at home with two equal volumes of hot water. One in a wide bowl, another in a narrow glass. Slap two thermocouples and watch the temps per time.

Anywho, I don't know the effeciency difference so the performance gain may be negligible.

Sorry the long post.

edit: spelling I need to get back to histology. Got a final tomorrow and I'm stressed something fierce


[Modified by bruthaboost, 1:00 PM 12/8/2002]

 

you cant cut the core down length wise,you would have to weld each and every bar if you did that,it would look alike crap and i seriously doubt any welder would even attempt it,im using this EXACT intercooler on my car,it works just fine cut down into to halfs,yes,the original entanks would be cut off and new ones welded on.Just keep it with the 3" core,it will work great,trust me.






[Modified by civictypenos, 6:29 PM 12/8/2002]

 

which one are you using ? the ones on ebay are only a 2" core did yours have alluminum end tanks or plastic ones and didnt you damage the header when you cut it ?


[Modified by Optiks, 11:57 PM 12/8/2002]

 

I dont care what the book says, real world experience comes into play. Go look at race air/air intercoolers, they are thick. You can run your thin intercooler all day long, I'll enjoy my thicker one and better cooling capacity. I wish that someone else that knows what is going on would come into this post. I could say it till i am blue in the face, but no one listens. Oh well, more knowledge to myself i guess.

 

i guess you both are right there is no point in having a 10 inch long intercooler that is 6 inches thick but there is also no point in having an intercooler that is 4 feet long (i know exagerated ) that is 1/2 an inch thick. I look at it this way first fill up you whole airdam and then go as thick as you have the clearence for and you dont notice mad pressure drop

 

I am not even going to bother replying anymore. If you'd like go and talk to Geoff, earl, ninesecrx, jinxproof among others. See what they have to say on this subject. Real world experience is the only type that matters.

 

The only reason the cores are thicker, is because of packaging reasons. The statement that a thinner intercooler with the same flow would work better is true. However, the reason race intercoolers are thick is because there is limited room for the length and height of the core. So if you can't make the surface area any bigger, just make the core thicker.
It was never said a core of the same length and height, but thinner would flow better of a thicker one, just that more surface area is preferable. Even real world experience is based on physical laws...

 

Optiks,
If you want to do this, just take it to a fab shop that does aluminum work and tell them "I want this intercooler to be the same length and thickness as it is now, half as tall, and I want end tanks on it with 3" diameter round inlets. Then leave and come back when they tell you it will be done. Quit trying to think about it too much, you don't seem to be getting it.

As for the "thicker is better/ worse" arguement- the more surface area each bar has, the better cooling it will give. For example- some RADIATORS use 2 rows of 5/8" bars, while others use 3 rows of 3/8" bars. The 3-row radiators cool better because they allow more of the coolant to contact ambient air. Now you're probably saying "HEY! 2x(5/8) > 3x(3/8)!" but remember these bars have thickness as well. The 3-row also promote more turbulent flow because each bar's cross sectional are is smaller, which increases the Reynolds number of the flow, ultimately giving it a turbulent regime.

As for INTERCOOLERS, the difference between a 2" thich core and a 3" thick core lies in the cross sectional area of the bars themselves, as well as the thickness of the plates and their coefficient of cooling (based on material properties). Whether or not their cross sectional area promotes turbulent flow (which prevents boundry layer formation and promotes faster cooling) is a function of how much air is flowing through the intercooler, as well as the shape of the bar. A bar which is very rectangular will give different cooling characteristics than one that is more round.

Hope this helps.... B*

 

thanks for the help but I will be making this myself and not having a shop do it so i have a lot of questions like these

 

I'm glad you're ambitious about it! However unless you have a TIG welder ($1,600 for a pretty decent one), you won't be able to assemble the finished product. I don't remember who posted it, but someone asked about steel endtanks. This could be done with, perhaps, 16 Ga sheetmetal, and they could be braised on. Unfortunately this will look pretty nasty, as on a surface such as this the brass braising rod would just run through the core and down the tank, rather than making a nice bead like a TIG will give you. If you have any fabrication questions don't hesitate to e-mail me off-list. lowdown@vt.edu

 

Looks like someone just finished reading a book, and trying to impress others with his newfound knowledge.

So you're saying that a THINNER IC will have less air resistance? Do you mean cross flow, or the actual charged air going thru the core? The thinner IC may be better for low boost levels, but increase the boost and the thinner IC will be a severe flow restriction.

Cross flow efficiency, frontal space, etc etc...all "smart" sounding terms, but any theory without application is useless. Have you ever tried pushing 30psi thru a 1" thick IC? I think not.

For this situation, I think we've already established that this particular FMIC is pretty thin for "high" boost levels. So to make up for any "restrictions", doubling the core thickness will increase total volume flowed while also increasing the efficiency of the IC, even if it's only 25% more. I'd rather have 50% more flow, than 25% less cooling capacity...esp if one is boosting more than 20-30psi (Drag applications only).

So the question is, how much boost were you hoping to run with this IC, Optiks?

 

yeah- read a book, A in Fluid Mechanics, Mechanical Engineering degree. But hey, everyone that posts on H-T has these credentials, right.....

Of course you could run 30 psi through a 1" thick intercooler. How high do you want it, and how long? What's important about how much air goes through it is the total cross sectional area of the bars, the shape of them, and their total length. Pressure drop due to length isn't linear, nor is it linear due to cross sectional area. Also- a 30psi car isn't something for beginners, unless very well sponsored

 

surface area is an important consideration in heat exchanger/IC design, but it is not the only one. for example, u must take into consideration fin area and fin efficiency. then u have to consider the pressurized flow within the heat exchanger itself and its geometry. then u have to optimize everything and get it to fit in front of the car/truck. thats why different sizes are available.

 

AfroPuff- what would you like me to do? What shall I calculate for you? I'm not going to whip out my calculator and waste my engineering paper to prove a point, not unless I'm making at least $50/hour for it.

B*

 

This intercooler is 2 inches thick, and do not weld it, braze it you will be much better off, trust me on this.

 

i have access to both a tig and some brass brazing rods what is your reasonig on brazing instead of welding

 

Afro sheen:

talk to me when you own a fast car. Until then, shut the hell up.

enjoy your label.

 

Captain stupid *** is at it again. Look, we know you are sitting in front of the computer and looking through your book to try to answer our complex questions and comments, you have no clue what the **** you are talking about. Admit it. And more importantly, you have zero experience in what you are talking about. I have taken thermodynamics, fluid dynamics, thermo and fluid LABS from one of the top engineering schools in america. I could scan a whole *** load of flow charts, post up flow rates and flow rate equations for you but they are going to make zero sense to you since you dont know your *** from your hand. You were an ok guy before you read that ******* book, now you think you are god. You are nothing more then an average joe with a book, a ghetto rigged turbo, and a pair of ***** that grew tremendously since you are sitting behind a keyboard. Put the book down, stop trying to suck corky bell's dick, and stop wasting our time.

p.s. nice avatar


[Modified by GudeH23a, 4:01 PM 12/10/2002]

 

i have access to both a tig and some brass brazing rods what is your reasonig on brazing instead of welding.
__________________________________________________ _________________

Unless you are very good with welding go for it but that aluminum is really thin on top and bottom. IF you get too close it will MELT. I dont know how many I have had to fix after a amuture has messed it up. Brazing on the other hand is easier and you have less chances of melting your intercooler. I use silver phos-copper brazing rods. It is just better to braze aluminum as well, specially if you want a leak free intercooler.


[Modified by therumblingteg, 2:12 AM 12/11/2002]