a1320honda

So ive been dealing with this problem of the plx-m300 i have showing 11.2-11.8 which is decently rich, but the plugs are pretty white. So i was thinking that the PLX O2 was going out, so it was replaced and the new sensor still shows the same thing. This has already lead to 1 LS bottom end with cracked ringlands in cyl. #2. So i just assembled my GSR bottom end and installed RC550 injectors, along with my auto-meter EGT gauge. I was thinking about putting it right in the collector where all four runners mate at the t3 flange, is this acceptable? Could my timing be off. Im only running 14* at 11psi, according to crome. What approx. should my egt's read? never tuned with egt so i have no real idea where i should start. Im only tuning to 10psi.

My setup:
B20B
t3/t4 57trim .50 cold .63 hot
Walbro 255
full throttle FPR
RC 550 injectors
BKR7E plugs gapped at .028
stock map sensor
tuned on crome
2.5" open downpipe
2.5" chargepipes

Thanks for any help given.

RC000E

Hey, post up your bin so I can take a look at it.

Alot of cars I deal with have similar issues due to timing being too retarded. Essentially your still burning mixture in the manifold, so your egt's will skyrocket.

Are you datalogging to verify for certain your a/f is rich throughout the range?

Also, are you doing a pull then shutting the car off immediately to check the plugs?

dbiker207

http://www.strappe.com/plugs.html check out this site it has good info about reading plugs. this may help you with your problem.

sohc_turd

it depends where on the spark plug insulator its showing "white." If its just the tip of the insulator thats white, then you should be fine, as WOT pulls will show up on the bottom of the plug insulator.

Since youve already installed a fresh wideband sensor, i'd rule that out, especially since those m300s are pretty reliable. usually when a sensor craps out it will start moving closer and closer to gasoline stoich.

remember that Crome is gonna have that "built in" advance, meaning, there will be a descrptancy between your table ignition values and actual. How much difference? who knows.

a1320honda

I dont have a datalogging setup. But i do have someone drive the car while i watch all the gauges and wideband. And yes, i do a hard third gear pull kill it instantly and check the plugs. The wideband never reads over 11.8. The electrode and insulator are a brilliant white all the way down inside the plug.

And the ls/vtec was set at 10psi while using DSM 450's. everyone said that 450's wouldnt support that but if the injectors werent up to it why would the wideband be showing good numbers?

Heres the timing map for the ls/vtec that cracked the ringland.

isaacson06

timing looks good for a stock motor try putting it into the 10.2 range on the wideband and then check your plugs and if they get better then get a firends wideband and tune it and send the plx300 back to them and get it fixed

anton_

i have the same problem with my crx vtec b16a turbo, my is 11,5 afr and the electrode and insulator are white¨
dont remember the name of the wideband but is a good mark
i have no ide what the problem could be

blackeg

thosse timing values are fine.

onee thing to look at though, crome isnt retarding timing at max tq. id bet you can go down to 16* from maybe 4500-6000 without loosing much power

sohc_turd

where do you have the m300 grounded to?

I'd recommend splicing into the +/- at the ECU if it isn't already.

onefstek

where in the down pipe is your wide band installed.

having the sensor too close to the end of the down pipe, will not read right.

a1320honda

the power and ground are installed in the ignition system and the O2 is about 8-10" from the turbo and about 4" from the turn down on the downpipe

FaceTuned

iTrader: (4)

i dont think your reading the plugs right what color is the fuel ring on the SP also pictures of the plugs would be great i could tell alot from them.do wot pulls then take pics.

a1320honda

This is after a hard 3rd and 4th gear pull in the b20b thats in the car now. the wideband is showing 11.3-11.9 from 4000-7000rpm the EGT's are reading right at 1000*f and the probe is 1.5" from the turbo in the downpipe. These are BKR7E gapped at .028

Cyl. # 3



Cyl. #4



And the timing map that the b20 is on.

SOHC_MShue

The plugs dont look lean at all to me. See how the bottom of the porcelain is plenty dark. Go get a brand new set of plugs and take some pics. That will help out much more.


Modified by SOHC_MShue at 10:39 AM 8/18/2007

Bailhatch

Those plugs are not from a motor that was runing lean. The electrode is tan, not white and the the rest of it is covered in soot...from being rich. Some fresh ones might give us some more insight but I think you're fine.

dbiker207

those plugs look fine, maybe even a tad rich

tepid1

How about you do a pull with a fresh set of plugs then post your results.... those plugs look a little old and it's almost impossible to tell what's really going on.

a1320honda

So can i assume my wideband is somewhat correct? Like i said, i was at the track last night and it was pulling 11.2-11.9. Thats the main thing im kinda worried about is if my WB in incorrect.

And ya i agree those plugs dont look too bad. But the ones that were in my ls/vtec were white down at the bottom.

dbiker207

why did you show us plugs from another engine? do you think we can tell you something about your engine from someone elses plugs?

a1320honda

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dbiker207 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why did you show us plugs from another engine? do you think we can tell you something about your engine from someone elses plugs? </TD></TR></TABLE>

No those are out of my motor thats in my car now, but i just blew up my ls/vtec on the same setup. I dont have pics of the plugs before i dropped in the b20.

blackeg

1000f is fine. aluminum melts at 1600 f i think.

those plugs look maybe even a little rich

quicksilver1689

http://www.dansmc.com/Spark_Pl....html

a1320honda

So i know this is a little off topic, but is it common for a stock B20b to be making alot less power than an ls on 10psi. Cause my LS was way faster (12.3@115 with tires spinning hard in 1st and 2nd) And my b20 that i have in here now is just a ton slower than the ls (12.9@108) I figured that the b20 with more disp. would make a little more power. But all this is on 10psi of boost. I just am new to tuning and i feel like im getting everything out of the b20 that its got but its just so much slower than just my ls. And the b20 has the P8R head on it too. Ive got the gsr assembled ready to go in, just gotta get off my **** and get it in. Cause my ls/vtec has gone a 12.1@118 spinning 1st, 2nd, and a little in 3rd.

sohc_turd

Are you still running the same map on the b20 setup? If not, the larger bore will probably be happier with more igntion.

a1320honda

No, its a whole seperate map. but i think it has less timing in that one than the one above.