why does the oil return have to be tapped as high as possible?
08-30-2006, 05:46 PM
#1
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why does the oil return have to be tapped as high as possible?
Everyone tells me my oil return is to low but why?when the engine run doesn't all the oil shoot up to the engine?I know it has to be striaght because it's gravity feed, but why so high?Thanks
08-30-2006, 05:52 PM
#2
Re: why does the oil return have to be tapped as high as possible? (D16y8_619)
It has to be high so it doesnt fight the oil in the pan to drain.If the oil in the pan is higher than the return fitting then the oil return has to drain into a pool of oil instead of just dripping in the pan with no obstruction
08-30-2006, 05:56 PM
#3
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Re: why does the oil return have to be tapped as high as possible? (D16y8_619)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D16y8_619 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">when the engine run doesn't all the oil shoot up to the engine?I know it has to be striaght because it's gravity feed, but why so high?Thanks</TD></TR></TABLE>
No, only a little bit of the oil is actually up in the motor when it's running. That is why the oil pickup sits up and still can draw from the pan.
No, only a little bit of the oil is actually up in the motor when it's running. That is why the oil pickup sits up and still can draw from the pan.
08-30-2006, 06:11 PM
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Re: why does the oil return have to be tapped as high as possible? (D16y8_619)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D16y8_619 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what's the worst that can happen if its too low?bust a seal?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Blow a seal, kill the turbo, starve the motor of oil, kill the motor, blow oil all over the car and the street, cause other cars to spin out, cause a massive pileup where John Connors dies, Terminators take over the world.
I'd just move the drain up.
Blow a seal, kill the turbo, starve the motor of oil, kill the motor, blow oil all over the car and the street, cause other cars to spin out, cause a massive pileup where John Connors dies, Terminators take over the world.
I'd just move the drain up.
08-30-2006, 08:13 PM
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blind leading the blind.
anyone ever looked at factory turbo cars, specifiaclly Audi's? they drain to the very bottom of the pan. would an OE do something like this if were a potential cause of engine failure? NO.
anyone ever looked at factory turbo cars, specifiaclly Audi's? they drain to the very bottom of the pan. would an OE do something like this if were a potential cause of engine failure? NO.
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08-30-2006, 08:26 PM
#8
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Re: (BrokeAssWhiteboy)
They are also not sending 80psi of unrestricted oil pressure in that turbo. They also use a water cooled turbo so it's not dependant on just oil. Two different setups your talking about.
08-30-2006, 08:41 PM
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Re: why does the oil return have to be tapped as high as possible? (D16y8_619)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D16y8_619 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what's the worst that can happen if its too low?bust a seal?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, you can blow the seals of the turbo. Kinda a pain in the ***, trust me. The reason the oil return needs to be high on the pan is something called "head pressure." The oil is gravity fed back to the pan, but there is already oil on the bottom of the pan which exerts a force against the oil that is trying to return to the pan. The more oil above the return bung/fitting (the lower the fitting) the harder it will be for the oil to drain out of the turbo and get back into the pan/oil system. Hope that helps a bit.
Yes, you can blow the seals of the turbo. Kinda a pain in the ***, trust me. The reason the oil return needs to be high on the pan is something called "head pressure." The oil is gravity fed back to the pan, but there is already oil on the bottom of the pan which exerts a force against the oil that is trying to return to the pan. The more oil above the return bung/fitting (the lower the fitting) the harder it will be for the oil to drain out of the turbo and get back into the pan/oil system. Hope that helps a bit.
09-01-2006, 11:09 AM
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Re: (Muckman)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Muckman »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">BrokeAssWhiteboy, why is your own oil return tapped high up in the oil pan then?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Guess the only welder he could find was blind also.
Guess the only welder he could find was blind also.
09-01-2006, 11:36 AM
#12
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Re: (BrokeAssWhiteboy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BrokeAssWhiteboy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">blind leading the blind.
anyone ever looked at factory turbo cars, specifiaclly Audi's? they drain to the very bottom of the pan. would an OE do something like this if were a potential cause of engine failure? NO. </TD></TR></TABLE>
^Coming from someone who's on their "first FI build".
anyone ever looked at factory turbo cars, specifiaclly Audi's? they drain to the very bottom of the pan. would an OE do something like this if were a potential cause of engine failure? NO. </TD></TR></TABLE>
^Coming from someone who's on their "first FI build".
09-01-2006, 06:11 PM
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Re: (nickromeo)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nickromeo »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">audis and vws are shitbox *** backwards weird mobiles.
--> coming from a professional lube guy
i hate german cars</TD></TR></TABLE>
professional lube guy haha .... just sounds funny
-joseph
--> coming from a professional lube guy
i hate german cars</TD></TR></TABLE>
professional lube guy haha .... just sounds funny
-joseph
09-01-2006, 11:07 PM
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Re: (nickromeo)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nickromeo »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">--> coming from a professional lube guy</TD></TR></TABLE>
Hey that's "lubrication technician" or "cooling and lubrication engineer."
Hey that's "lubrication technician" or "cooling and lubrication engineer."
09-01-2006, 11:47 PM
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thats wierd, because for some reason greddy designed the oil return line to route right into the oil drain hole on the bottom of the pan with a special banjo fitting. They did this for the Prelude, Rsx, and Civics ( EP )
09-03-2006, 08:08 PM
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Re: (Toanz)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Toanz »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thats wierd, because for some reason greddy designed the oil return line to route right into the oil drain hole on the bottom of the pan with a special banjo fitting. They did this for the Prelude, Rsx, and Civics ( EP )</TD></TR></TABLE>
I think its not a stretch to say the often manufactureres of some of these "performance" parts/kits skimp a bit on quality. A banjo fitting on the oil plug is much more cost efficient than adding an oil pan with a bung or instructing the customer to drill/weld a pan or drill a hole in one and install a bulkhead fitting. Customers that buy these kits are usually concerned mainly with ease of installation.
On a side note, the oil pickup for the motor is on the bottom of the pan and maybe the suction of the pickup being right there would make it a bit easier (or not so difficult) for oil to drain into the pan. Just a thought.
I think its not a stretch to say the often manufactureres of some of these "performance" parts/kits skimp a bit on quality. A banjo fitting on the oil plug is much more cost efficient than adding an oil pan with a bung or instructing the customer to drill/weld a pan or drill a hole in one and install a bulkhead fitting. Customers that buy these kits are usually concerned mainly with ease of installation.
On a side note, the oil pickup for the motor is on the bottom of the pan and maybe the suction of the pickup being right there would make it a bit easier (or not so difficult) for oil to drain into the pan. Just a thought.
09-04-2006, 10:57 PM
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Re: why does the oil return have to be tapped as high as possible? (D16y8_619)
Thanks for all the info, i will get a new oil pan soon and tap it as high as possible.check out my oil pan now!
09-04-2006, 11:49 PM
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Re: why does the oil return have to be tapped as high as possible? (siblues)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by siblues »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">when you reweld it try to not put it too high where you cant access the oil pan bolts </TD></TR></TABLE>
Good idea!I'm also going to use a new oil pan.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Good idea!I'm also going to use a new oil pan.
09-05-2006, 12:12 AM
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Re: why does the oil return have to be tapped as high as possible? (D16y8_619)
my 1.8T VW motor the oil drain is right at the bottem, so i dont think it matter
09-05-2006, 05:09 AM
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Re: (Toanz)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Toanz »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thats wierd, because for some reason greddy designed the oil return line to route right into the oil drain hole on the bottom of the pan with a special banjo fitting. They did this for the Prelude, Rsx, and Civics ( EP )</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KeyserSoze »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I think its not a stretch to say the often manufactureres of some of these "performance" parts/kits skimp a bit on quality. ....</TD></TR></TABLE>
This has been covered more than once.
It comes down to turbo placement and drain line length.
Traditional Honda turbo setups that have low mounted turbos and short drain lines need to have a drain above the oil line to assure good drainage. If the drain goes below the oil line it may not drain fast enough and back up into the turbo seals.
Top mount turbo setups or kits like Greddy for the RSX or EP3 that have the oil drain mounted to the stock oil drain bolt can be below the oil line because the turbo sits higher and the drain lines are much longer. That allows the oil to drain without backing up into the turbo.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KeyserSoze »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I think its not a stretch to say the often manufactureres of some of these "performance" parts/kits skimp a bit on quality. ....</TD></TR></TABLE>
This has been covered more than once.
It comes down to turbo placement and drain line length.
Traditional Honda turbo setups that have low mounted turbos and short drain lines need to have a drain above the oil line to assure good drainage. If the drain goes below the oil line it may not drain fast enough and back up into the turbo seals.
Top mount turbo setups or kits like Greddy for the RSX or EP3 that have the oil drain mounted to the stock oil drain bolt can be below the oil line because the turbo sits higher and the drain lines are much longer. That allows the oil to drain without backing up into the turbo.