what specs to cut the piston rings
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Re: what specs to cut the piston rings
jeez idk
bore size (in inches) x .0065 for the top ring
bore size (in inches) x .007 for the second ring.
thats your answer in inches.
honestly if you arent sure there has to be someone to bring it to that does know, this isnt something you want to go messing around with
bore size (in inches) x .0065 for the top ring
bore size (in inches) x .007 for the second ring.
thats your answer in inches.
honestly if you arent sure there has to be someone to bring it to that does know, this isnt something you want to go messing around with
#5
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Re: what specs to cut the piston rings
There are different ways to gap your rings but you need to be in the ballpark. I believe you should measure when you decided to do this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piston_ring
http://www.circletrack.com/howto/1818/index.html
Just a couple of decent reads. As for "gapping for power range goes" I think that you just had bearing sizes more in your mind.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piston_ring
http://www.circletrack.com/howto/1818/index.html
Just a couple of decent reads. As for "gapping for power range goes" I think that you just had bearing sizes more in your mind.
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#10
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Re: what specs to cut the piston rings
arias has to have a tech department, most of these guys are willing to give you the info you need.
i wasnt happy with the gap specs given to me from the boards, so i called cp. they were very helpful, asked about power and boost, and geve me the number i needed.
give them a call. this is something you want right. not to mess with.
i wasnt happy with the gap specs given to me from the boards, so i called cp. they were very helpful, asked about power and boost, and geve me the number i needed.
give them a call. this is something you want right. not to mess with.
#11
Re: what specs to cut the piston rings
This is true. More power = more heat = more gap. Please listen as I have arias pistons, 83mm 9.4:1 and went to hell and back with Arias. For 500whp they told me 26 on top and 22 on bottom. Arias told me gap the top one more because it sees more heat. Not sure but either way I did this and I think they're a bit too loose. If I could go back I would have not gone over 23. Also, fyi arias "Tech Line" sucks. Call and ask for Elmer. Nancy doesn't know what she's talking about. Beeri told me 26 and 22 and I think they're too loose.
I say I went to hell and back because those mother f**kers sent me the wrong rings with my pistons. Hopefully you got the right ones! They re sent me rings for free and again they were wrong! Elmer was the only one that knew which rings were right. I rebuilt my motor 3 times, fluids, headgaskets, etc all because they're retarded.
I say I went to hell and back because those mother f**kers sent me the wrong rings with my pistons. Hopefully you got the right ones! They re sent me rings for free and again they were wrong! Elmer was the only one that knew which rings were right. I rebuilt my motor 3 times, fluids, headgaskets, etc all because they're retarded.
Last edited by E85B18; 08-18-2010 at 08:47 AM.
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Re: what specs to cut the piston rings
my motor is gapped to about 22 top and 26 2nd ring (its not too loose for the power level you are anticipating) 84mm benson sleeves with cp pistons. honestly, call the piston/ring manufacturer and go with what they recommend. after all that is what they do for a living
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Re: what specs to cut the piston rings
I have 84mm Arias too and I am getting ready to gap the rings once I get rods, please share with us what you find out when you call them...
#16
Re: what specs to cut the piston rings
For your power Arias is going to tell you what they told me. This was my conversation with the manager Beeri Meza:
"Hello,
I just bought new pistons for my 83mm Honda B18C1. I am going to run about 25 psi (about 515 whp on my set up). What ring gaps do you recommend for a build with at least 475whp? Also, how can I tell which ring is the top one?
Thank you!!!"
His response:
"top ring .022" minimum,
2nd ring .020" to .028"
oil ring rails .020" minimum, can have as much as .050"
keep in mind that having a little extra gap will not hurt you, while not having enough will surely do.
the top ring is the one with the silver face, or silver all over... 2nd ring is dark, dullish grey
hope this helps
Beeri Meza "
Being this was my first build I then asked, "With the power level Im going to have, where do you recommend I have the oil ring rails? .020 and .050 are quite a bit different!"
He responded, "Oil rails don't matter as much as the top ring, even the 2nd ring has a pretty wide margin. the main dimension is the top, 2nd and oil rings, as long as you are in that range, you will be fine."
My oil rails came in right about .020, a little closer to .018-.019. Based on him saying, "keep in mind that having a little extra gap will not hurt you, while not having enough will surely do." I gapped my oill rings to .035 WHICH YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO DO! DO NOT TOUCH THEM! Not only did Arias send me the wrong rings twice the guy told me to gap my oil ring rails. After doing so your car will smoke like a freight train!
"Hello,
I just bought new pistons for my 83mm Honda B18C1. I am going to run about 25 psi (about 515 whp on my set up). What ring gaps do you recommend for a build with at least 475whp? Also, how can I tell which ring is the top one?
Thank you!!!"
His response:
"top ring .022" minimum,
2nd ring .020" to .028"
oil ring rails .020" minimum, can have as much as .050"
keep in mind that having a little extra gap will not hurt you, while not having enough will surely do.
the top ring is the one with the silver face, or silver all over... 2nd ring is dark, dullish grey
hope this helps
Beeri Meza "
Being this was my first build I then asked, "With the power level Im going to have, where do you recommend I have the oil ring rails? .020 and .050 are quite a bit different!"
He responded, "Oil rails don't matter as much as the top ring, even the 2nd ring has a pretty wide margin. the main dimension is the top, 2nd and oil rings, as long as you are in that range, you will be fine."
My oil rails came in right about .020, a little closer to .018-.019. Based on him saying, "keep in mind that having a little extra gap will not hurt you, while not having enough will surely do." I gapped my oill rings to .035 WHICH YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO DO! DO NOT TOUCH THEM! Not only did Arias send me the wrong rings twice the guy told me to gap my oil ring rails. After doing so your car will smoke like a freight train!
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Re: what specs to cut the piston rings
I have a similar situation to you guys.
Golden Eagle sleeves at 84mm, Arias pistons and rings came with the package from G.E.
Since I have been in and out of the country over the last few years, It took a long time to finally get my project car done.
So I am a few thousand miles into break-in. The engine is eating oil pretty regularly (about a quart each thousand miles). No smoke, but I can smell it during start-up. Either the rings did not seat/seal properly or the gap was excessive. Either way I think that I'll need to have the bores honed, and put new rings in. unless burning 4 quarts during the first 4 thousand miles is normal for break-in.
So I am back to the question- OEM 84mm honda rings (pre gapped to honda specs) or aftermarket file-to fit rings from ARIAS? What determines the end gap needed- is it the piston material, or is it the ring material?
Posted below on Team-Integra during the build:
Golden Eagle sleeves at 84mm, Arias pistons and rings came with the package from G.E.
Since I have been in and out of the country over the last few years, It took a long time to finally get my project car done.
So I am a few thousand miles into break-in. The engine is eating oil pretty regularly (about a quart each thousand miles). No smoke, but I can smell it during start-up. Either the rings did not seat/seal properly or the gap was excessive. Either way I think that I'll need to have the bores honed, and put new rings in. unless burning 4 quarts during the first 4 thousand miles is normal for break-in.
So I am back to the question- OEM 84mm honda rings (pre gapped to honda specs) or aftermarket file-to fit rings from ARIAS? What determines the end gap needed- is it the piston material, or is it the ring material?
Posted below on Team-Integra during the build:
Originally posted by Jacksont001 on Aug/12/06
I need some input.
I've already started gapping my rings and I have a nagging thought in my head.
The numbers I was given from the piston manufacturer has the bottom rings gapped tighter than the top rings.
What I am running
84mm Arias pistons (3.307 inches)
With the ring set that came with the pistons they said to gap the top 18-20 thou (.018" to .020")
and the bottom 16-18 thou (.016" to .018")
I'm not sure if the bottoms should have the larger gap, or not.
OR should I just go use CRV rings at 84mm?
I need some input.
I've already started gapping my rings and I have a nagging thought in my head.
The numbers I was given from the piston manufacturer has the bottom rings gapped tighter than the top rings.
What I am running
84mm Arias pistons (3.307 inches)
With the ring set that came with the pistons they said to gap the top 18-20 thou (.018" to .020")
and the bottom 16-18 thou (.016" to .018")
I'm not sure if the bottoms should have the larger gap, or not.
OR should I just go use CRV rings at 84mm?
Originally posted by Jacksont001 on Feb/04/06
I have a confession to make though, and the Wieseco ring gap thread is what made me realize I had made a mistake.
I used the wrong specs for the ring gap, and the ones that came with the pistons were File-to-fit. Well they did meet honda ring specs.... So I installed them.
Well luckilly I didn't do anything other than install them, so I will be pulling them out and filing them down.
I bought a manual ring filer (the disk grinder) from summit for $50 and will be doing that when time permits.
Specs from Arias after I called them
for the 84mm pistons 3330510 with ring p/n 1212403307
18-20 thousandths top ring
16-18 thousandths bottom ring
I have a confession to make though, and the Wieseco ring gap thread is what made me realize I had made a mistake.
I used the wrong specs for the ring gap, and the ones that came with the pistons were File-to-fit. Well they did meet honda ring specs.... So I installed them.
Well luckilly I didn't do anything other than install them, so I will be pulling them out and filing them down.
I bought a manual ring filer (the disk grinder) from summit for $50 and will be doing that when time permits.
Specs from Arias after I called them
for the 84mm pistons 3330510 with ring p/n 1212403307
18-20 thousandths top ring
16-18 thousandths bottom ring
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Re: what specs to cut the piston rings
First let me start by saying I have searched and read dozens of threads here and on other sites for the past few days before posting.
If you can help, I am Looking for a little advise. After melting a piston several years ago from what I believe to be a bad tune, I am finally getting around to rebuilding my engine. I ordered new pistons/rings etc. The block was machined and honed to the pistons. The problem I have is after reading countless threads and talking to JE I am torn on the #2 piston ring end gap. When I received the rings, 2 of them were substantially larger than the other two. Resulting in an end gap of .028 in 2 cylinders for the 2nd ring. The other two are sitting at .021 and .022
I talked to 2 different people at JE and they keep telling me the #2 piston ring gap makes no difference as long as the end gap is large enough to avoid butting. They told me that they do not manufacture them and the manufacturer has a tolerance of .010 I believe is the number they threw out.
If this were the case, why in both their literature and what I see online do most people suggest a clearance of .022 for the second ring.
I would really appreciate any advise.
The engine is tuned to 20psi and was making about 400whp on pump gas. Its bored 81.50 and honed just a tad looser.
I have searched countless threads with nothing that was a concrete explanation for this. I hate to rebuild just to destroy another engine over something so trivial.
Thanks for any help you may have!
If you can help, I am Looking for a little advise. After melting a piston several years ago from what I believe to be a bad tune, I am finally getting around to rebuilding my engine. I ordered new pistons/rings etc. The block was machined and honed to the pistons. The problem I have is after reading countless threads and talking to JE I am torn on the #2 piston ring end gap. When I received the rings, 2 of them were substantially larger than the other two. Resulting in an end gap of .028 in 2 cylinders for the 2nd ring. The other two are sitting at .021 and .022
I talked to 2 different people at JE and they keep telling me the #2 piston ring gap makes no difference as long as the end gap is large enough to avoid butting. They told me that they do not manufacture them and the manufacturer has a tolerance of .010 I believe is the number they threw out.
If this were the case, why in both their literature and what I see online do most people suggest a clearance of .022 for the second ring.
I would really appreciate any advise.
The engine is tuned to 20psi and was making about 400whp on pump gas. Its bored 81.50 and honed just a tad looser.
I have searched countless threads with nothing that was a concrete explanation for this. I hate to rebuild just to destroy another engine over something so trivial.
Thanks for any help you may have!
Last edited by Si Integra; 01-19-2011 at 12:13 PM.
#21
Honda-Tech Member
Re: what specs to cut the piston rings
First let me start by saying I have searched and read dozens of threads here and on other sites for the past few days before posting.
If you can help, I am Looking for a little advise. After melting a piston several years ago from what I believe to be a bad tune, I am finally getting around to rebuilding my engine. I ordered new pistons/rings etc. The block was machined and honed to the pistons. The problem I have is after reading countless threads and talking to JE I am torn on the #2 piston ring end gap. When I received the rings, 2 of them were substantially larger than the other two. Resulting in an end gap of .028 in 2 cylinders for the 2nd ring. The other two are sitting at .021 and .022
I talked to 2 different people at JE and they keep telling me the #2 piston ring gap makes no difference as long as the end gap is large enough to avoid butting. They told me that they do not manufacture them and the manufacturer has a tolerance of .010 I believe is the number they through out.
If this were the case, why in both their literature and what I see online do most people suggest a clearance of .022 for the second ring.
I would really appreciate any advise.
The engine is tuned to 20psi and was making about 400whp on pump gas. Its bored 81.50 and honed just a tad looser.
I have searched countless threads with nothing that was a concrete explanation for this. I hate to rebuild just to destroy another engine over something so trivial.
Thanks for any help you may have!
If you can help, I am Looking for a little advise. After melting a piston several years ago from what I believe to be a bad tune, I am finally getting around to rebuilding my engine. I ordered new pistons/rings etc. The block was machined and honed to the pistons. The problem I have is after reading countless threads and talking to JE I am torn on the #2 piston ring end gap. When I received the rings, 2 of them were substantially larger than the other two. Resulting in an end gap of .028 in 2 cylinders for the 2nd ring. The other two are sitting at .021 and .022
I talked to 2 different people at JE and they keep telling me the #2 piston ring gap makes no difference as long as the end gap is large enough to avoid butting. They told me that they do not manufacture them and the manufacturer has a tolerance of .010 I believe is the number they through out.
If this were the case, why in both their literature and what I see online do most people suggest a clearance of .022 for the second ring.
I would really appreciate any advise.
The engine is tuned to 20psi and was making about 400whp on pump gas. Its bored 81.50 and honed just a tad looser.
I have searched countless threads with nothing that was a concrete explanation for this. I hate to rebuild just to destroy another engine over something so trivial.
Thanks for any help you may have!
#23
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Re: what specs to cut the piston rings
I used the OEM staggering pattern for my rings in my last build. I assumed that was the only way to stagger them?
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Re: what specs to cut the piston rings
I just gapped my rings last night-84mm cp with their rings. The pistons come with a brochure telling gapping specs for different set-ups- to be found here:
http://www.cp-carrillo.com/LinkClick...Ls%3d&tabid=74
As far as clocking: found this outta the helms manual:
http://www.daijekbok.com/pics/rings.gif
http://www.cp-carrillo.com/LinkClick...Ls%3d&tabid=74
As far as clocking: found this outta the helms manual:
http://www.daijekbok.com/pics/rings.gif
Last edited by sjp00422; 01-30-2011 at 04:22 AM.