memphiss13

this is something that i have just wondered. i am talking about air to air FMIC's to be specific. what makes one brand better than the other? is it the bigger the better? or does it have alot to do with the design of the core. if somebody has pics to compare different designs that would be great.

Boostage

yes and yes. bigger flows more but also endtank location is important...



^^This intercooler is big, but isnt great because the endtanks ar elow and will mostly flow air a the bottom half and the top half wont get used as much




^^ is more ideal because the endtanks is in the middle so airflow is even across aall teh fins

memphiss13

thanks that is exactly what i needed. and that is what i figured worked best.

honda13typer

i heard bar and plate is better than tube and fin design. i not sure why though

Chip

best (and ugliest) is a vertical flow cooler, that uses more, shorter tubes instead of less, longer tubes like in a horizontal flow cooler.

TurblowR

bigger is not always better. you want to match your intercooler with your turbo and how much power u want to make. if it is too big you will get a lot of pressure drop. correct me if im wrong

1.8T_EG

core design also plays a big role in the efficiency of an intercooler. take a look at the two pics below, which one do you think will be more efficient at dissapating heat?

Street Ghost

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1.8T_EG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">core design also plays a big role in the efficiency of an intercooler. take a look at the two pics below, which one do you think will be more efficient at dissapating heat?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'd like to know.

integlspwr2k

iTrader: (3)

i would have to say the second one.... that is why i got rid of the street import ones.

1.8T_EG

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDM Ninja &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I'd like to know.</TD></TR></TABLE>

definitely the second one. think about how much more surface area there is for it to transfer the heat to.

RedTT

bar and plate cores have less pressure drop and are less efficient
tube and fine are more efficient but have a greater pressure drop
top to bottom cores are more efficient but have greater pressure drop
side to side cores are less efficient and but have less pressure drop

It depends on what turbo you have and where your at on the efficiency level of the turbo. A small turbo running high boost would want tube and fin running side to side. A huge turbo running low boost needs a bar and plate running top to bottom. One IC can't just be better, it has to match the turbo. Remember, pressure drop means you're gonna work your turbo harder. That's why people with factory turbos are starting to go to bar and plate. They suffer way less pressure drop which means higher boost

Si[R]

So which one is more efficient #1 or #2??

grndcont

who the f*ck makes that second one? that's sick looking! ( sorry, i've been out of the loop for the last 5 months. boot camp and a-school.)

01geeser

the second core is better. it has 3 times more passages than the first core. i believe the second core is a pwr core.

turboteg2nv

If you're not sure, then why post??? Misinformation is trash. You have that totally back asswards.

From my secret archives:

The Basics:
Any compressed fluid will increase in temperature. Because hot air is less dense (meaning less oxygen per unit of volume), however, in an automotive application, hot air is our enemy. Less oxygen means less power, and lower temperatures reduce the risk of engine-destroying detonation.


Components:
Just like a radiator, an intercooler is a simple heat exchanger, built in two primary parts: the endtanks and the core. The core is a collection of fins, each one passing a small part of the air charge by a small part of the cooling medium (outside air in an air/air unit, or water in an air/water unit), who's low temperature and high flow around the core absorb the heat of the air charge. The endtanks simply take the air from the pipe and distributes it to the fins of the core, or vise versa.

Turbulators are curved pieces of sheet metal seen on both the inside and outside of intercooler cores between the fins. They do much to increase drag, but much more too increase heat transfer. Their job is to separate the air charge (as well as the cooling medium) into even smaller units, forcing virtually all of the two fluids to do their part in heat exchange. The more turbulators there are, the better the heat exchange, but the greater the flow restriction as well. Therefore, in an application with lots of internal flow area, more turbulators can be reasonably employed, while in an application with less internal flow area the reverse is the case.


Design considerations


- Internal Volume
While more volume will provide more space for heat transfer, just as overly large piping will result in more lag and less throttle response, a larger intercooler will take more time to pressurize and have the same effect. The goal of designing/selecting the proper intercooler for each application is to find the balance between maximizing the ability to remove heat from the system while minimizing flow restriction and pressure loss.


- Internal flow area
In the design of intercooler cores, there is always a balancing act between too much and not enough drag. If the air charge has a hard time passing through the core and spends more time in it, it will consequently have more time to give up its heat to the cooling medium and cool down. However, if it spends too much time in the core, it will experience large pressure drop, forcing the compressor to do extra work to achieve the same boost level, and thereby reducing efficiency.


- Core sizing
Because as the cooling medium passes through the core and absorbs the heat of the air charge it heats up, by the end of the core the efficiency of the heat transfer decreases significantly; so much that the second half of the intercooler only does one half of the work. Increasing depth also increases the air for the passing medium, which can be a considerable issue for air/air intercoolering. If the outside air can more easily pass around the intercooler then through it, then it will do just that, thereby decreasing the amount of heat exchange that can possibly occur. Fortunately, proper positioning of the intercooler and ducting to it can be used to counter this problem, as will be discussed later.


- Core material
Although aluminum tends to be the material of choice for core construction with generally all automotive heat exchanged, several other materials offer distinct advantages and disadvantages. Silver has a lower coefficient of heat then aluminum, and will thus support more heat exchange over aluminum in an otherwise identical situation, and the increase in price is surprisingly small. The core manufacture Blackstone, used by Porsche, Ferrari, Saab and Johnisenglish uses all silver cores, as well as several other foreign companies. For air/water cores, copper offers even better heat properties at a fraction of the cost of both aluminum and silver. Unfortunately, due to copper's corrosive properties, it generally isn't appropriate for street use in an air/air situation.

The main draw of an air/air intercooler is its low cost and simplicity. The outside air offers a virtually limitless supply of cooling medium, and offers excellent efficiency at high speeds. Unfortunately, an air/air intercooler can never lower charge temperatures below ambient air temperature, and in some applications (such as the top mount unit found in WRX's) at lower speeds can function more as an interheating then an intercooler (although this isn't a huge problem, as at low speeds lower charge temperatures generally aren't as important, if important at all).

Air/Air Intercooling Design Considerations:


- Core streamlining
As mentioned earlier, air will travel the path with the least resistance. More drag there is between the fins of a core, leads to less ambient air will flow between them and the less heat exchange. The simplest method of increasing air flow is to increase the internal flow area, but doing so lowers the amount of heat exchange, so alternate means of doing so should be employed first.

- Core Flow Direction
Because greater internal flow area will increase the amount of heat transfer over a unit with the same volume but less internal flow area, the orientation of endtanks with respect to the core should always be designed to maximize internal the flow area. However, because of space considerations in our cars, its very difficult to employ an intercooler of this sort in the front bumper.

Internal Flow Area


- Fin shape
The two primary fin designs of intercoolers on the market today are bar and plate and round edged extruded. Because it is easier for air to flow around a smooth curve, round edged finds will always provide for better air flow over bar and plate designs.


- Placement
The placement of the intercooler plays a huge role in the amount of heat exchange that can take place, but is almost always limited by available space. Front air dams, fender wells and practically anywhere that has consistent access to a large amount of ambient airflow will work, but for Integra purposes the front air dam tends to be the place of choice, both for reasons for success and necessity. Top mount units, such as those used in the WRX and FC RX-7 usually enjoy sufficient airflow at high speeds when paired with a hood scoop and proper ducting for the air to leave, but will always be subject to the high temperatures of the engine bay; it gets the job done, but by no means is it ideal.

- Ducting
Proper ducting of ambient air to and away from the core can increase airflow by up to 20%. However, contrary to what common sense might imply an opening larger then the internal flow area of the core is not the ideal size. Instead, the opening should be between 60 and 25% of the core area. This number is both a result of the fact that in a completely open situation, less then one forth of the area going towards the core would flow between its fins, and a smaller inlet tapering open towards the core will produce a low pressure area, sucking in more air and maximizing air flow. An inlet tapering down towards the core will produce a high-pressure area, and consequently hinder airflow towards the core. After leaving the intercooler, the outside air should be given an unrestricted path away from the core, thus allowing cooler air to come and take its place. However, in most Integra front mount applications, the radiator sits behind the intercooler, causing it to both restrict airflow and receive already heated air for cooling. Fortunately, the affect of this on the cooling system is generally acceptably small.


- Endtank Design
An ideal endtank will take the air charge from the piping inlet and evenly distribute it among each fin, or vise versa. However, many intercoolers on the market today employ endtanks that unevenly distribute the air, putting more work on one section of the intercooler then the other, and as a result decreasing efficiency. Un-ideal endtank design can be compensated for by using internal baffles to even out the airflow, or simply altering the shape of the endtank itself.

Compliments of TeamIntegra/JohnIsEnglish

ZoRG

I like myne, 7x7x14... this will be converted to a Air/Water unit, its too big to fit in the engine bay.

green_GSR

Here is a link on intercooler design.
http://www.are.com.au/techtalk/intecoolersMR.htm

integlspwr2k

iTrader: (3)

Here is the picture of the greddy FMIC core.

I HAD the street imports one, and got rid of it like a bad habit, and you can see why.