Well the final decision will rest upon the owner and what they think is best. I did alot of research and asked alot of people about their "opinions", and after months of researching and asking questions I made my decsion. I am happy with my decision based on the time and researched I did personally. From all the advice people gave me I thought it was best to bore out my block 2mm over and open the combustion chamber to match. So whether I benefit or not I just have to see what the final outcome will be with my 1996 89mm H22A1 motor. This was an interesting thread.


There is no replacement for displacement.

 

yea, can't we all just agree to disagree? Can't we all just get along? (I know, I know, bad timing on that one).

On a side note, the edges of the cc on a B16A head I looked at seemed ok to me, not too sharp at all. I'll put up pics soon if I can.

 

I was just about to ask some of these questions myself because at some point in the future I will be resleeving and going to 2.0L. The B20b head is identical to the B18b head? I am trying to see in my head the edges of the combusion chamber hanging over the bore.....? Its that what is going on? How would something like that change where the head gasket seals? Sorry I don't know alot about this stuff, please help me understand.

 

Another thing....
Body Kits, I would like to know more about what you consider proof that the stock CC is best. No one will argue that Honda makes one hell of an engine.....but here all of us are taking that to the next step. When you change something as drastic in the way a motor works as increasing the displacement it would seem to me that other things need to be changed as well. The first and most obvious must be that the CC no longer lines up with the bore the way it did stock? You seem to be arguing a very specfic aplication, the "frankenstine motor" or what ever they call it. Please, I am not knocking or flaming, just trying to understand. What about a non vtec motor....a normal vtec motor? Ericks racing is a very impressive example, but it does not tell me why I would not want my bore to line up with my CC.....?

 

Yes, the B20 uses the B18B head. The cc "hangs over" into the cylinder bore by 1.5mm or so on each side from the factory.

 

Well I do not have time to answer that queston at the momment because I need to run to the bank. But I will be back in a few hours and try my best to answer it. Well I am the type of person that likes to go with proven fact and I believe the stock CC being "reworked" and not enlarged is the way to go with a 84mm bore. The reason why I say that, and this is just a personal opinion is because I know a lot of people that have quite a similiar setup than mine that have produced reliable power and have had great results from leaving the CC stock. I have never seen a before and after setup that truly showed the benefit of increasing the combustion chamber size or deshrouding of the valves. Also I am pretty sure that the LS/b20 Head are identical and I was told by a friend of mine that has a b20 that it is actually smaller than 81mm. So if that is true then we should be asking, why did honda not enlarge it? If you want I will answer this question with a detailed techinical answer, but I seriously do not want to write a essay, and then just have people argue the facts. But not only do I have experience, but the people I directly deal with have more experience with honda head technology than most people. Also I refer to the b20/vtec because those are the pistons I used for my particular setup. The pistons are a 84mm bore, and they were made to work with a stock b16 head with a stock CC. They are designed for optimal performance for that particular setup which I have. We can get all technical and start talking about Flame travel, Deshrouding, and what not, but like that other person lets just agree to disagree if we can't all agree or side with each other. 2 Words ERICKS RACING, prove it on the track boys, and what I have said is proven. Everyone has their own recipe, I have mine. I will post something later that is a little more detailed, but like I said, I probably will be wasting my time cause everyone including me can be stubborn lol.

 

its called being cost effective honda never intended the b20 to be a performance engine.

 

A stock b20 motor has a 84mm bore with 81mm combustion chamber.

 

I'm sending my b16 to GE to get it resleeve and bore out to 84mm. It didn't hit me until I see this post. My personal opinion is when you enlarge the bore you will need to enlarge the combustion chamber also. If I bore it out to 84 mm, Do I need to increase the the valves size also? How big do I need to go? My goal is to hit 350-400 whp. Keep the post coming.

jason phan


[Modified by Ltech, 3:55 AM 5/1/2002]


[Modified by Ltech, 3:57 AM 5/1/2002]

 

Well my setup is going to be capable of producing over 475whp. I have a 84mm bore, but I didn't enlarge my combustion chamber. I did upgrade my valves though. I went with a .5 oversized valve and I have a slight valvetrain upgrade. I also had the head reworked and added a JG Intake Manifold. I have before and after flowcharts for my head. I recommend going with the oversized valves. If you need some or need some good headwork just send me a e-mail.

"LsTurbo91" Thanks for clearing that up.


[Modified by BodyKits NW, 8:40 PM 4/30/2002]

 

hey body kit so if i build my bottom end completely, can i leave me head completely stock like the valves, retainers etc??? i plan to run 15psi. thanks

 

Yah, I have a 2.2 SOHC accord as well. I am not sure if that is the same car you got, but mine is a 96 Honda Accord EX. I was just looking at your screen name. I would build the bottom end first before I even worked on the top. If something is going to give it's your bottom end. If you can afford to, do a valvetrain upgrade so you can rev a little more reliably. You can always upgrade the valve's and get a port and polish when money permits.

 

Mr. BodyKits: I am interested in hearing what you and your locals are finding to be good #'s and ET's with the 84.5mm bore and 81mm chambers. I am not dissing, just inquiring. We don't have many of these setups here in Utah, so I'm not sure what to expect when I finish building mine.

 

I can almost imagine how a stock CC diameter could help make power -- that "ledge" of metal that overhangs the cylinders gives something for the A/F mixture a nice flat ring to "push" against during the combustion event. I dunno. I'm just trying to imagine how a smaller CC diameter would help in any engine.

 

Well man, that is a completely whole different question, lol or should I say argument. Everyone has a different setup and it all comes down to what you wanna do with the 84.5mm bore. Is it going to be a all motor buildup or are we talking turbo. I have a turbo setup, but I have another 2000 b18c motor I am going to have GE resleeve to make myself a all motor monster. But the thing is, you can make good power with just the stock 81mm bore, but you are limited to the amount of boost you can run reliably. I know, I know people say tuning is the key, but those stock sleeves will crack, it just takes time. I even have a friend that has a stock b16 bottom motor, complete stock and he is running like 12.2 in the 1/4 at 13.5 psi of boost, and the turbo setup is custom. To me that is pretty fast especially when you take into factor he is not even running a standalone and his block is completely stock. Your numbers are going to vary depending on quite a few factors. If you want just Instant Messege me if you have any questions or we can discuss the best route for you to get the best power from your resleeved motor. Thanks.

 

LOL. Mark aka B20C5 has already made an excess of 400 whp on this motor at only moderate boost levels. you should be asking him for advice.

 

I highly doubt that, no one knows what I got up my sleeve and what we are capable of doing. But hey, give me a couple weeks, just gotta wait for 1 more thing to arrive from Japan.

 

*Deleted* (irrelevent) Look for the dynoplot in a later post with more info on the setup.


[Modified by B20C5 Turbo, 11:37 AM 5/1/2002]

 

I'm sorry.. For those members that are really interested what to do with a "big bore" engine, please laugh at the previous sarcasm and read this with full attention. Then seek other appropriate sources of knowledge to confirm these findings:

Anytime that you have the ability to deshroud your valves (larger bores) you should take advantage of the opportunity. This also applies to quench areas and associated quench pads on the pistons. Always treat your engine components as a team package instead of individual hitters. You will be able to put together a group of pieces that work better that way.

If you decide to run a larger bore, always prep your head (and pistons) to match. Always!!

 

Agreed!

 

Ok.....I'm a wimp and only went with 81.5mm bore on my GE sleeved B18C. Would it be benificial for me to have the head matched to 81.5mm too? I had the head worked on by the same shop that did my block.....but I'm not sure if he did that.

-Trung

 

Projekt: You will be fine.

 

Hey atleast you got room to spare man.

 

Hey atleast you got room to spare man.

"B20C5 Turbo" That's a pretty graph, but for this guys application with this post I still don't feel that he would truly gain much if any by opening up the cc. Like you said you wanna build the motor so it functions to produce the most power by making all the pieces work together to it's full potentional. So by saying that I believe there are some setups that will not benefit from opening up the combustion chamber. It all comes down to the little things like piston design, and what not. Some things just don't work with others. But hey, that's a nice graph, those stock sleeves may just hold out.

 

This has been a pretty good thread.

to BodyKits NW for not retaliating with flames to people with differing opinions.