ITR.#1446

I am curious as to what causes these to break is it running too rich ? If some one could just give me a brief summary that would be cool

jarvis199

detonation... the ringlands on stock honda pistons are very thin and weak... they wont take much detonation...

the last car i know of around here that had ringlands break was a black si that had a HUGE fmic on it, the tune was 11.2-11.3:1 afr 13* total timing at 10psi and he did a 40-155 mph pull down hte highway and boom... i figured either he overboosted (he was on stock map sensor) or his engine bay temps were very high and it his IAT correction wasnt pulling enough timing...

ITR.#1446

well i had mine break i was running an old turbonets kit with the 2 injectors on the cold side that i should of never trusted and two other kids i know one with a ls broke his and another with a h22 spun and bearing and broke ringlands. So detonation from from too rich or too lean ? i plan on buying an ls motor to make a ls-v turbo and i dont want to go thru this again. I plan on running 7-10 pds of boost on it so what size injectors would be good for this ? 550 ? 650? And then another question i have is what should timing be set too? I will def get my motor tuned this time around but i just want to have everything squared away before i go.

edit. and the kids that blew there ringlands were just running fmu's and a walbro 255 no fpr or any kind of tuning either

IN VTEC

iTrader: (3)

If you overheat the pistons, the pistons can scuff all the way up to the ringlands. When the scuffing moves enough material to bind the piston ring, the smoking starts because the ring can't contact the walls properly.

SovXietday

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ITR.#1446 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well i had mine break i was running an old turbonets kit with the 2 injectors on the cold side that i should of never trusted and two other kids i know one with a ls broke his and another with a h22 spun and bearing and broke ringlands. So detonation from from too rich or too lean ? i plan on buying an ls motor to make a ls-v turbo and i dont want to go thru this again. I plan on running 7-10 pds of boost on it so what size injectors would be good for this ? 550 ? 650? And then another question i have is what should timing be set too? I will def get my motor tuned this time around but i just want to have everything squared away before i go.

edit. and the kids that blew there ringlands were just running fmu's and a walbro 255 no fpr or any kind of tuning either</TD></TR></TABLE>

See, most people think tuning is just getting more fuel in during boost. That's about 1/2 of the battle. You can be running 11.5s all day long and still blow an engine to hell really easily. If you can't pull timing with boost, you're going to detonate and ruin the ringlands.

ITR.#1446

by pulling the timing you mean retard it more as it boosts? like the msd box they make?

jarvis199

its pretty hard to break ringlands due to being too rich, if u get that rich the engine will just breakup and not pull...

u break ringlands due to detonation, u detonate due to too lean of a mixture/too much timing/too much power for stock pistons...

ITR.#1446

ok thanks i understand it more now, so is the msd box that retards the timing under boost a good thing to get until i can get a good ecu for tuning? and should it be set to stock or lower then stock. I need to drive my car for alittle before i can get more parts and my has the msd box.

HiProfile

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ITR.#1446 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so is the msd box that retards the timing under boost a good thing to get until i can get a good ecu for tuning?</TD></TR></TABLE>

That would help, but if you plan on building a motor, don't even consider beating on it until you get it properly tuned. There are 2 types of Honda people: people that do it wrong over and over and over, and people that do it right. Hondas are cheap, but not THAT cheap.

Maybe you should consider running NA for a while, or under 5psi? Just a thought you should consider. You wouldn't run with a bald spare tire in the front w/boost, so why treat your engine to similar mistreatment?

ITR.#1446

i have a stock ls i was gonna put in the 5 pd spring i have an fmu and msd box until i can get money for injectors and an ecu.

jarvis199

honestly, can u afford to break your motor? with the fmu and msd theres still a chance u will break something... just wait till u get the cash for the ecu and whatnot before you boost, i know it sucks waiting, but do it once... do it right...

Boostinb20!

I agree bro dont rush it i have seen many people destroy motors in a rush to go fast even motors with great aftermarket set ups pistons rods the whole deal and they melt a piston or bust rings all cause they wanna run a freeway pull or go fast without the fuel system to back it up. unless your motto is like Mine.

(I break to fix them to not Break Again)

Rob03Pro5

I can give you a nice example of good insurance..

Back in '97 or '98, I helped my buddy install a Drag Gen 3 kit on his '94 GSR (he goes by SenekaGSR on HT), and this was our first time doing anything like this. We got the whole kit on, wired up the inline Walbro, 12:1 FMU installed, etc. We also installed a J&S Safeguard... mainly to monitor knock and have it pull timing if it gets too high. What a great idea this was!

After installing the kit, we took it down the street for a test run.. the car pulled harder than stock.. but wasn't quite right. We noticed the J&S going CRAZY! What the hell.. we rechecked everything and noticed we wired the Walbro incorrectly so the car wasn't getting enough fuel! The J&S had saved the car by pulling back crazy amounts of timing.. granted we didn't run the car that hard and it was only at 6psi.

Anyhow, timing being pulled was what saved his motor. The car eventually went to SFP for a dyno run and it put down 270whp and 189wlbft. He ended up never getting an ecu for it, and eventually sold it 4 years later or so..

riddlinkid1986

Okay, here is a idea. BASEMAP!


I have been driving on a base map from pharable.net for 6months now, doin fine. But, its not a TUNE just safer then anything else. I also got a VAFC hooked up, where i add fuel as well, from like 5k an up i added like 6% fuel an up to be safe. An to make the idel to stay put i had to add 14% fuel at idel. lol, now it works. Not the greatest, but as safe as i can get till i can save up for a tune.

I just look at my plugs, they are black, an when i hit my 2step i get fuel black smoke for a puff (mild) but thats all that ever comes out the tail pipe. An ofcorse the carbon build up on my rear bumper.

I have between 180 an 195psi in each cyl as well. My plugs are black, with a white tip. i go through plugs every 2 months seems like.


my set up

2000 civic si

T3T4 .63 HOT .57COLD
MOTORLA 2.5 BAR MAP
CTR CAMS
ARP HEAD STUDS
550cc tuner toys
Walburo fuel pump 255
RAMHORN
2.5 DOWNPIPE
VAFC
CHIPPED P28 PHARABLE.NET
GREDDY E01 BOOSY CONTR0LLER
XS POWER WG 4PSI SPRING 38MM
RECIRCULATING DUMPE TUBE

I have a question for pharable.net

-When you send out your basemaps, how much timing do you guys retard for every psi of boost?

-Do you guys Dissable the Intake Temp Sensor?


I also, retarded my Dizzy quite abit aswell. I just turned it back twords firewall little by little.

This is what im using asfar as management. If i was you GET A BASE MAP! you need a program that retards under boost.

ITR.#1446

yeah i am also getting a chipped p28 from phearable that i forgot to mention, are they good for base maps? i put the kit on cuz it half of it was already on and was easier to do while putting in the ls i plan on using the weakest spring i have which is like a 3 and adjusting the wastegate out so i barely push anything or can i drive around with no spring in the wastegate?


Modified by ITR.#1446 at 9:55 AM 9/12/2008

SovXietday

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ITR.#1446 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah i am also getting a chipped p28 from phearable that i forgot to mention, are they good for base maps? i put the kit on cuz it half of it was already on and was easier to do while putting in the ls i plan on using the weakest spring i have which is like a 3 and adjusting the wastegate out so i barely push anything or can i drive around with no spring in the wastegate?


Modified by ITR.#1446 at 9:55 AM 9/12/2008</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes you can run with no spring in the wastegate. Basemaps are ok, but they are not a tune.

Civicman86

basemaps are good to get to the tuner. Don't treat it as a map that you can run for months and months.

ITR.#1446

so now if i order a ecu from phearable is neptune good or should i just save up for hondata? this is my dd i was just looking for a little more reliable power nothing crazy

alpha

Neptune is more than good

ITR.#1446

alright cool now they sell there ecu's that have basemap chip, is that a tunable ecu or then does a new chip need to be burned i am confused about all this ecu stuff

alpha

Yes. A Neptune tuner is able to fully tune the car and edit the ecu. If you want to do this yourself you have to purchase an RTP unit

ITR.#1446

na i dont plan on doing this myself any other places that might sell neptune for a cheaper price then phearable?

ITR.#1446

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by riddlinkid1986 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I have a question for pharable.net

-When you send out your basemaps, how much timing do you guys retard for every psi of boost?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

thats pretty good can a phearable ecu be chipped again or tuned from? I am also curious if they pull timing for the boost also.