Setup:
D16z6 @10psi via T3 60 trim turbo (.63/.60)...big exhaust side
Open downpipe
450cc injectors
Uberdata

Well, I ran the hack for 5-6 months.

I was now boosting 10psi. Even on stock clutch it pulled ****** CRAZY. Even on a big *** turbo it spooled fast as hell. It was scary how fast that car went. I knew that a VAFC set on -35% across the board along with a stock timing map was FAST, but just TOO unsafe. A lot of people last a really long time on the hack (at 10+ psi even), but there's always those instances where thone engine will let go. Because I didn't wanna rebuild the engine quite yet, I decided to go uberdata EVEN THOUGH I knew that it would be slower (mainly because of the timing retard)......

I gathered the chips and supplies and got everything together for chipping. A few weeks later, I had a chipped ecu running BeerBong's map.

I noticed that his map was slightly lean at certain points but I decided to leave it and try it out.

The results? Exactly what I was expecting. A consistent power curve, but not as fast as the hack. It spooled slower and didn't seem to make as much power, but there was one big difference. It was EXTREMELY SAFE, and CONSERVATIVE. I looked it over and knew there were a few things I needed to change. First, was to add some fuel to the lean spots. Second, Look at the timing map.

What did I see? Too little timing. Will it be AS safe if I advance it more? Of course not, BUT, if people are running the hack on 30 degrees advance, upping the timing a little bit on that already conservative map isn't going to be NEARLY as bad as the hack I was running. Plus I knew I've got a spare engine so if this goes (which I highly doubt it will) i've got a back up.

Here's the details of what I found. The ign Lo curve is WAY too retarded. 7 degrees advanced at 2000 RPM @ 1psi IS NOT going to get you anywhere in a hurry (safely yes, hurry NO ) That needs to be advanced. Along with that, 17.5 degrees at 10psi is extremely low as well. People with the hack have been running about 29 degrees advanced, is upping it to 25 going to bomb the engine? No. It may lower the life, but if you're looking for a decent amount of power you can definately ADVANCE it temporarily. Buy 2 chips. Run a race setup and a daily setup. It's that simple. This is what's great about uberdata.

So overall, I couldn't be anymore happier with Uberdata. It's a MSD BTM+AFC+A LOT MORE all packed together for a price right around 120-140. It's stupid not to.

I'd like to hear your thoughts and opinions on this.

Remember, I didn't say advance the hell out of the timing, BUT it's definately going to be way more conservative than the hack along with upping the power. Also, I never said you'll need to run this 24/7. But if you're looking for more power temporarily(by temp. swapping chips) from Uberdata, this is one place to take a look at.

If my opinions are off, just dont flame me . LMK what you think and lets discuss this. Im still learning too. The only reason I bring this up is because I dont think many have looked at it yet.

 

Im gonna be trying it out soon i hope

 

The butt dyno detects quick transitions from low power to high power very well, it has difficulty with smooth power onset and then the transition from moderate power to high power. Without timeslips/dyno/some objective yardstick, you can't really state power differences with complete confidence.

Also, it's a standalone- going by AFR and monitoring KS you can put fuel and ignition wherever you want them. Stop running a basemap and tune your car so it spools better... I run 32 degrees advance at boost transition, and I don't back much of it out until 4 psi and up, and I do it for a reason.

 

You shouldn't be running uberdata just off a basemap. You really should be using it to tune your car.

BTW, when BBKA's rom was made, his ignition was advanced 1.5 degrees at the dizzy, so if seems a bit retarded, it was to compensate.

There is no reason that Uberdata should be slowing your car down if it is tuned properly. Quite the contrary, you should be able to experience some gains.

 

ignition that is too retarded isnt always "safe" either, it can raise EGTs.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by racinskittle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Because I didn't wanna rebuild the engine quite yet, I decided to go uberdata EVEN THOUGH I knew that it would be slower (mainly because of the timing retard)...... </TD></TR></TABLE>

just to clarify, you thought it would be slower because of different timing, NOT because it was uberdata. if you wanted to, you could tune uberdata to match exactly what your hack was setup as. i just want to make sure there isn't any misinformation here, even though you probably knew.

good to hear you're enjoying uberdata. get it on a wideband and tune it - it can only get better

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by keebler65 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
just to clarify, you thought it would be slower because of different timing, NOT because it was uberdata. if you wanted to, you could tune uberdata to match exactly what your hack was setup as. i just want to make sure there isn't any misinformation here, even though you probably knew.

good to hear you're enjoying uberdata. get it on a wideband and tune it - it can only get better </TD></TR></TABLE>

EXACTLY! It's not Uberdata at all. Uberdata's badass.

I was just trying to point out that I think BBK's map (which is the exact setup I have with the exception of a different size turbine) and the overall Uberdata basemap is quite conservative in regards to timing, noticeably on the low RPMS in the lo map and a little on the hi map as well.

I guess I could have summed it up with that


J. Davis That's what I was hoping to hear. I wanted to make sure what I was doing was something that wasn't abnormal. The reason I brought it up, is i've seen 2 basemaps set so far with .7 degrees retard set for the transition into boost (1psi) and even more than that. Why? That's what I was trying to figure out.


Modified by racinskittle at 4:50 PM 5/11/2004


Modified by racinskittle at 4:50 PM 5/11/2004

 

Here's a good paragraph from a post I was reading at Homemade.....

"Key to having quality boosted spark tables is to have proper NA spark tables. The reason that I say this is I do not use "boost retard" style functions... Normally I set retard at 0.1 (yes, a tenth) degrees / psi to give a minimal amount of retard. Past then from 5psi to the top of the map, I'll add 0.25 deg retard. Then from 7psi to the top of the map, I'll add 0.5 deg retard. Then I'll retard the very last column of the map another 0.75 degrees. This adds up to 2.5 degrees of retard at 10psi. "

But most people are running .7 degrees across the whole map. Why? Well, thats what i was trying to figure out

 

Very good info, I had the same setup I have now but with FMU, Inline Fuel Pump, stock injectors, and ran 9 PSI and it pulled crazy, with uberdata Its smooth.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by racinskittle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Here's a good paragraph from a post I was reading at Homemade.....

"Key to having quality boosted spark tables is to have proper NA spark tables. The reason that I say this is I do not use "boost retard" style functions... Normally I set retard at 0.1 (yes, a tenth) degrees / psi to give a minimal amount of retard. Past then from 5psi to the top of the map, I'll add 0.25 deg retard. Then from 7psi to the top of the map, I'll add 0.5 deg retard. Then I'll retard the very last column of the map another 0.75 degrees. This adds up to 2.5 degrees of retard at 10psi. "

But most people are running .7 degrees across the whole map. Why? Well, thats what i was trying to figure out </TD></TR></TABLE>

could you or someone else clarify this post? whats the difference between using the boost retard fuction in uberdata versus doing it by hand?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by racinskittle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
J. Davis That's what I was hoping to hear. I wanted to make sure what I was doing was something that wasn't abnormal. The reason I brought it up, is i've seen 2 basemaps set so far with .7 degrees retard set for the transition into boost (1psi) and even more than that. Why? That's what I was trying to figure out.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

The two most common DIY errors that kill power and momentum on a stock engine/street setup is to run an engine too rich at transition into boost, and to yank too much ignition too soon.

Blundar was doing stepped ignition retards... .25 deg/psi from transition to ~5 psi, .5 deg/psi from 5-8 psi, and .75 deg/psi from 8+... for basemaps. Works a lot better than a flat retard, great results with good power.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by keebler65 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

could you or someone else clarify this post? whats the difference between using the boost retard fuction in uberdata versus doing it by hand?</TD></TR></TABLE>

If I understand your question, the boost retard function retards it a set degree/lb across the whole boost portion of the map (you already knew this). Usually people are setting it at .7deg/lb on the basemap. This can be a little too much in the 1-3-5 lb portion of the map. So they set those individually at a lower retard/lb of boost. say .3 in these areas instead of the usual .7 across the board.

I tried this and it helped the lag noticeably actually.

 

neat

 

Copy-pasted from your thread on HMT. Including Pats revised map that should be matched to the dizzy at idle.

It should be noted that Pats map is actually -2 degees accross the board from what he is actually running. There was some time contraints on the dyno, so I elected to not adjust his dizzy to match the maps and just make a mental note of it.
He is actually at 20* in boost on the low cam and 19.5* on the high cam.
Good observation on the low speed timing @2000. His timing down there at 0" is still stock. I usually advance 3-4* from 1700-3500 ish w/ noticable results. Cant get anything past you
I dont however, like to ramp up the in boost timing under 3500ish. I prefer to hit full timing advance around the same area as stock. 3500 in the case of his Z6.

Pats timing overall IS conservative, but thats how I do it on other peoples rides. We did add 2* to a total of 21.5* on the dyno and saw no noticable gains , so I elected to back it back down. Lower peak combustion pressures w/o lower power.
I agree that D's dont require any retard till around 6-7psi.

Heres the revised map that should be matched to the dizzy at idle.
http://www.draglab.com/pat9final2.bin

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The two most common DIY errors that kill power and momentum on a stock engine/street setup is to run an engine too rich at transition into boost, and to yank too much ignition too soon.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ohh so true.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The two most common DIY errors that kill power and momentum on a stock engine/street setup is to run an engine too rich at transition into boost, and to yank too much ignition too soon.

Blundar was doing stepped ignition retards... .25 deg/psi from transition to ~5 psi, .5 deg/psi from 5-8 psi, and .75 deg/psi from 8+... for basemaps. Works a lot better than a flat retard, great results with good power. </TD></TR></TABLE>

thats the best/coolest thing ive heard on this site in a while!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by racinskittle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

But most people are running .7 degrees across the whole map. Why? Well, thats what i was trying to figure out </TD></TR></TABLE>

I think becasue for the most part people say Run 120% efficiency & 1lb/psi timing for your basemap, then tune from there. Thats what i've read for a while although that has changed (the timing suggestion has come down to about .7-.8lb/psi)

I am gonna be boosting as soon as my IC arrives (soon I hope) and was planning to use .8lb/psi but in reading this thread I may change that.

Good info guys

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SiRkid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

thats the best/coolest thing ive heard on this site in a while! </TD></TR></TABLE>

It sure is! Its better than subtracting .75 degrees, and then adding it back on the low end, like I was going to do haha.

 

does uberdata have launch control? i was thinking (still am) about gettin hondata but damn the price of makin an uberdata chip is way cheaper.. hmm. was it hard to tune? can uberdata handle 15 psi of boost on a sohc vtec? would i have to get a 3 bar? tia

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by egturbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">does uberdata have launch control? i was thinking (still am) about gettin hondata but damn the price of makin an uberdata chip is way cheaper.. hmm. was it hard to tune? can uberdata handle 15 psi of boost on a sohc vtec? would i have to get a 3 bar? tia</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes uberdata has launch control. It is not difficult to tune as long as you understand what the X/Y axises do and how they correspond to what your car does when you're in and out of boost.

It can handle 15psi but in order to do so SAFELY a 3 bar is required.

You can run 15psi on the stock map however, because it's set to not see boost, BUT the tables only go to 11 (because that's all the stock map can handle). It's just dangerous. You can safen it by making the last column EXTREMELY conservative (is that even the right word ? ), but it's really not worth it.

 

Hi all!

I've been contemplating on whether or not to use uberdata also, since I'm currently using the hack. Unfortunately the b16a I got has an auto tranny, can I still chip my ECU to accept uberdata and still run an auto tranny? Or does it have to be manual? tia

 

my timing's set to .9 retard across the board... I need to get a burner sooooooo badly and change that!

 

maybe thats why my car lags so much down low.

 

I'm tuning my homefry Tony Fowee's turbo D16A6 CRX in the next couple days. Will not be uberdata, but rather NG22 / TurboEdit 2.0-try10 'cause it's an OBD0 car. I thought I'd share my plan for tuning it so that it might help someone.

The car will be tuned on 93 octane unleaded pump gas. I'll prob dump a gallon of tolulene in the car + tweak the maps a little at the track sunday. Stock D16A6 motor, gutted 89 HF CRX. HF manifold, T3 turbo, DSM 450s, Saab viggen IC. Nothing bling. Hope to hit mid-low 13s on slicks. Shouldn't be hard considering weight of car.

I'll be aiming for:

13.5 AFR while NA. 28 degrees timing at boost/NA transition peak power production. Timing retarded by 1 deg / 1000 RPM on top side of RPM band after peak power production.

12.5 AFR from 0psi to 3psi. retard 0.25 degrees cumulative by 3psi (i.e. 0.08 degrees/psi)

12.25 AFR from 3psi to 5psi. retard 0.75 degrees cumulative by 5psi (i.e. 0.25 degrees/psi)

12.0 AFR from 5psi to 7psi. retard timing 1.75 degrees cumulative by 7psi (0.5 degrees/psi)

11.5 AFR from 7psi to 10psi. retard timing 5 degrees cumulative by 10psi (0.75 degrees/psi)

Timing ends up at 23 degrees @ 10psi ... little on the high side but not much. The gradual increase of retard is called a "step-retard." The step retard is designed to retard the timing when it is needed (high boost) and leave you with as much advance as possible when you don't to spool the turbo and get overall better performance. (low boost) BE CAREFUL. The key to a good step retard is to figure out where you want your FINAL timing to be, and work backwards from there.

AFRs get richer as boost climbs because fuel acts to cool combustible charge, makes for safer motor at expense of power production. The saying "lean is mean" applies here too - generally you'll make more power from the leaner AFRs at the expense of EGTs, detonation danger, etc. Run the higher AFRs while you can and gradually drop them as the motor needs it. Motors rarely like sudden changes in anything, and AFR is no exception.

I really spewed off a lot of garbage (and others did too - good stuff) in the thread on HMT so if you're curious, read up more there. (engine management forum)

 

the mighty blundar

 

hey i have a socketed p72 gsr ecu can i use that for my sohc vtec turbocharged? and is there a way i can take out knock? thanks. good info.