SOHC_MShue

Well I was having a problem earlier on in this year when i first got all my turbo stuff on. My car would make a funny noise when in higher rpms like around vtec in mostly 3rd and 4th gear. It sounded kinda like rattling or something vibrating in my engine bay. I am running uberdata so I posted on their forums because i thought it was detonation. I tried everything with my maps including backing the timing down a whole lot and even basically maxing out my dsm 450 injectors. Even then i would still hear the sound. The people on the uberdata forum concluded that I was misfiring for some reason and not detonating. I even bought new plugs and tried gapping them lower than before, which didn't help at all. Finally I tried putting in a walbro fuel pump and that seemed to get rid of the sound completely.

Now that its winter time and its colder outside the sound is here again . I thought the fuel pump had fixed it, but it just seems to get worse when its colder outside. If it was detonation shouldn't it be worse in the warm weather? Oh btw I always run 93 octane and again this is only occuring in higher rpms..mostly in 3rd and 4th gear. Could there be something wrong with my injectors? Even with them almost at 100% duty cycle it did it. My car even idles fine. Any ideas on what the sound is guys?

Drew Peacock

How much boost? What gap you running?

SOHC_MShue

10psi and i believe the gap is .028 right now. I tried gapping it lower than that before when I had the problem during the summer and i don't think it helped.

SOHC_MShue

i have a fuel cutoff switch for my fuel pump. If there was a somewhat bad connection with that could that be causing it to misfire? I know when i put the new fuel pump in it fixed my problem during the summertime.

Drew Peacock

Are you running a stage colder plugs?

SOHC_MShue

yea 6's

Drew Peacock

NGK's?

SOHC_MShue

yup

PrecisionH23a

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHC_MShue &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> It sounded kinda like rattling or something vibrating in my engine bay.</TD></TR></TABLE>

If that sound is like a can of bb's being shaken, it's detonation.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHC_MShue &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I tried everything with my maps including backing the timing down a whole lot and even basically maxing out my dsm 450 injectors. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Have you ever put a wideband on the car? You can dick around with your fuel till your hearts contempt but if you do not know the actual a/f you are putting out... tuning it is a waste of time. True you can do a dick tune up top by reading your plugs, but that is not how real tuning is done.

Maxing your injectors out by the way is BAD. You never want to run more than a 80 (85 is usually the highest I go) % duty cycle on them. I already know a lot of you others have gotten away with a higher duty % cycle, so spare me the lecture. I don't dick around with cutting corners.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHC_MShue &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Now that its winter time and its colder outside the sound is here again . I thought the fuel pump had fixed it, but it just seems to get worse when its colder outside. If it was detonation shouldn't it be worse in the warm weather? Oh btw I always run 93 octane and again this is only occuring in higher rpms..mostly in 3rd and 4th gear. Could there be something wrong with my injectors? Even with them almost at 100% duty cycle it did it. My car even idles fine. Any ideas on what the sound is guys?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm not sure exactly what type of temperature changes you are undergoing, but yes it will throw off your a/f readings a few points (.x not x.xx). I would try switching to a ngk 3330 plug, it is a 7 series plug. The 6 may not be cold enough for you. Also try replacing your plug wires and inspect your rotor and dizzy cap. They may need to be replaced as well. Another thing that could be shot is your coil and/or ignitor.

In closing, buy a wide-band if you are going to tune.

SOHC_MShue

yea i am actually going to be getting an innovative really soon. I still don't see how i could possibly be detonating though even on a conservative *** basemap. Like if I set the ignition retard to .9 degrees per psi and set the boost fuel efficiency to something like 120 shouldn't that be enough that i should deifinantely not be having detonation issues? I mean at that point if i'm still having problems do you think it is something else like a bad injector or something? My car runs fine and pulls very strong..it doesn't seem to stumble or anything when i hear the sound.

PrecisionH23a

Every motor is different and just because a basemap works on a buddies car doesn't mean you will get the same results he did. I never start a car without having a wideband hooked up when running a basemap... whether it be AEM EMS, hondata, or even a simple s-afc install.

Running at a 100% duty cycle it is quite possible you heated up your injector(s) and now it is sticking (malfunctioning). Always start with the easiest thing to replace and go from there.

Re-read my reply, try out my suggestions, and let us know what happens. We'll help you out from there.

SOHC_MShue

well i only ran at 100% duty cycle for probably a day. I am nowhere near that now. I am running beerbongskickass's 1.66 tuned maps right now. Which I assume should be fairly rich on my car because its tuned for 12psi and a much larger turbo. I would just run a regular basemap because i know its not smart to run someone else's maps, but, but the same thing happens with a basemap anyways and my car just seems to run better with his maps. The only change in the maps is that I subtracted 4 degrees of ignition timinb across the board because i have a y8 and not a z6. y8's base timing is 12 degrees and the z6's is 16 so thats why i did that.

SOHC_MShue

bump. Anyone else having a similar problem?

PrecisionH23a

I give up.

SOHC_MShue

i'm ordering a wideband soon i promise .

What are those plugs you were telling me about? The ngk 3330's? Could I just get the normal ngk's in 7 series? The normal ones are only like $10

Drew Peacock

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHC_MShue &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i'm ordering a wideband soon i promise .

What are those plugs you were telling me about? The ngk 3330's? Could I just get the normal ngk's in 7 series? The normal ones are only like $10</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yep, so the standard heat range is 5 for your engine? I would still try the 7's. Its not just the tappets rattling at higher rpm is it? Hows the oil level and age..

SOHC_MShue

i'm wondering if it could be them rattling at higher rpms too. My motor has 113k on it and the oil level is full right now because I just filled it. Oh and btw I also have the zex stage 2 cam in there and zex valvesprings so that could be making my valvetrain louder as well.

Drew Peacock

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHC_MShue &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i'm wondering if it could be them rattling at higher rpms too. My motor has 113k on it and the oil level is full right now because I just filled it. Oh and btw I also have the zex stage 2 cam in there and zex valvesprings so that could be making my valvetrain louder as well. </TD></TR></TABLE> Well there easily adjusted, after that if I were you I'd get it on a dyno.
Seeing how you had the problem before when you fuel pump was perhaps malfunctioning, you would assume its a fuel supply problem, you could get your injectors sonically cleaned and flow tested that will tell the story as to how well they are working. New fuel filter. Maybe check the connections to your fuel pump and the pump it self. The dyno can save a lot of time other wise spent trouble shooting.

atcrx

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHC_MShue &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Now that its winter time and its colder outside the sound is here again . I thought the fuel pump had fixed it, but it just seems to get worse when its colder outside. If it was detonation shouldn't it be worse in the warm weather? Oh btw I always run 93 octane and again this is only occuring in higher rpms..mostly in 3rd and 4th gear. Could there be something wrong with my injectors? Even with them almost at 100% duty cycle it did it. My car even idles fine. Any ideas on what the sound is guys?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think it may be a lean misfire. Regardless of how much duty cycle are in the injectors or fuel pressure readings if you are not getting the volume of fuel it will be leaner. Also the cooler it gets the leaner the motor will run because the air is denser. Possibly the computer can compensate for some of the denser air but not all of it.

SOHC_MShue

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbozxi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Well there easily adjusted, after that if I were you I'd get it on a dyno.
Seeing how you had the problem before when you fuel pump was perhaps malfunctioning, you would assume its a fuel supply problem, you could get your injectors sonically cleaned and flow tested that will tell the story as to how well they are working. New fuel filter. Maybe check the connections to your fuel pump and the pump it self. The dyno can save a lot of time other wise spent trouble shooting.

</TD></TR></TABLE>
well i'm kinda leaning towards the fuel supply as well. If I have a fuel cutoff switch could a short in that connection be causing the fuel pump not to work correctly? I don't want to put it on a dyno because i will be getting a wideband soon hopefully. What kind of place do i go to in order to get my injectors cleaned and tested?

Also i pulled my plugs today and all 4 looked very brown. Not dark brown and not light brown...just brown i guess how they should look. I gapped them a little lower and that didn't help. I tried getting some 7 series plugs, but the store had already closed.

SOHC_MShue

i have a video of me doing a 3rd gear pull at home. I'm gonna look at that and hopefully you can hear it. If you can i'll post it up.

Drew Peacock

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHC_MShue &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
well i'm kinda leaning towards the fuel supply as well. If I have a fuel cutoff switch could a short in that connection be causing the fuel pump not to work correctly? I don't want to put it on a dyno because i will be getting a wideband soon hopefully. What kind of place do i go to in order to get my injectors cleaned and tested?

Also i pulled my plugs today and all 4 looked very brown. Not dark brown and not light brown...just brown i guess how they should look. I gapped them a little lower and that didn't help. I tried getting some 7 series plugs, but the store had already closed. </TD></TR></TABLE> Most EFI places should have a machine, ring you local car parts place they will be able to put you on to someone.

movedon

I just read your post and my first question was going to be if you used a wideband....but it has been answered. Could possibly be a misfire...that will foul out your plugs. However you said you have no signs (i.e. stumble, CEL, buck, etc.) Although it could be det. as well. Can't really guestimate thos one without the wideband...the reading of wehre you are can single out the problem. If we guestimate we could be going left, when in fact we should be going right. So put the wideband on it and you'll get your answer.

SOHC_MShue

alright guys apparantely since i got the new fuel pump in there adding in a little extra fuel will help. I added 13% more fuel in the boosted columns and it no longer detonates. It may be a little rich for now in the lower boost tables, but that will be taken care of soon when my wideband comes in the mail.

SOHC_MShue

hopefully my car didn't take too much of a beating with the slight detonation that it was having