pub

more specifically talking about the b18b. I'm replacing my rods w/ forged ones. I was wondering if this was the, or one of the, weakest link(s) in my motor. You guys think I should get the pistons as well since I'm already going to be down there? I don't plan on boring the sleeves in the future.
Comments, as always appreciated.

PrecisionH23a

yes, replace the pistons and piston rings while you are at it. just make sure you have your engine dyno tuned properly and you shouldnt have a problem with your stock sleeves if you dont run rediculous amounts of boost 24-7. how much boost and power are you planning on producing?

pub

I was shooting for 7 daily/ 10 track under Hondata tuning on stock internals. But now that I'll have these rods in, and possibly pistons w/ lowered compression. More like 10 daily/ 12 track. I just need to find me a bit more scratch. I'll have just enough for rods, pistons, and install. Boost fund'll need to start all over.

stale1 '01 itr 616

Don't forget about your top end. Springs and valves. Valves like to bend. Springs like to not keep up.

jdblack1

Rods and pistons are the weakest links as long as you stay with stock redlines while boosting. If you get rods and pistons with proper fuel and tuning you could easily boost 12+ psi.

IMHO

pub

stock redline for now. just tryin to get boosted. I can see myself upgrading the valvetrain later down the line along with a PnP job.

*Boostwerks*

With boost, stock cast pistons are by FAR the weakest link.

The material does not hold up well to the slightest detonation, and does not even compare in strength to low silicon forged pistons.

Swap in forged pistons in a 9:1 CR to a B16 and the motor is immediatly capable of 400HP with out any other mods. (assuming detonation is taken care of)

catch is, if you going to open up the engine, you might as well beef up other stuff just to be safe.

DIRep972

iTrader: (1)

I would say the rings are the weakest link. Definitly get forged pistons in there while u do the rods. Dont worry about the head, it will be fine with stock.

TheSwift1

i don't think it's necessarily the rings...but more the ring lands (pistons) that seem to give...

*Boostwerks*

I second that.

E Swift

You all talk about the bottom end, but, in reality, its the fuel that needs to be upgraded along with the ecu. With the proper tuning and fuel upgraded, you can boost much more safely.

*Boostwerks*

"weakest link in a motor under boost"

MOTOR

MOTOR

MOTOR

True Tuning is really the best 2cents ever spent on a long lasting motor, his question was aiming towards the mechanics of the engine.


[Modified by Bryson, 10:14 PM 5/27/2002]

DIRep972

iTrader: (1)

YES, I was gonna point this out but he had mentioned he was going with hondata so i figured he had that covered pretty well.

PrecisionH23a

if you wanna do 12 psi on the stock sleeves, please make sure you are properly tuned and have good fuel upgrades.

pub

Yes, I plan on spending most of my money and time on the tuning. I was just wondering mechanically which proponents were the "weakest". It's really looking like I might just build this here motor over the summer and slug around on a low CR for awhile until the actual boost gets going. The summer project begins now.

*Boostwerks*

WHAT??

Properly tuned and honda sleeves can take 18+ no problems.

BlueShadow

maybe so, but for how long or for ho many miles?

*Boostwerks*

Tuning. Good tuning = a motor that lasts.

BlueShadow

yes, but can you give me a number (mileage)?

I'm not stupid, I know what is needed to ensure a long lasting engine, but I just wanted to point out that I have heard some people say something similar to what you said. One thing they always fail to mention, is how long the engine will last.

we already know that turbo'ing a factory non-turbo motor decrease engine life, but how much more (if any) are we decreasing the engine life?

I'm not asking this question for myself, but rather for everyone else.



[Modified by BlueShadow, 5:22 AM 5/29/2002]

Hybrid

I can tell you first hand that the stock cast pistons are the weakest link. They have no resistance to detonation at all. I just blew my # 1 piston, and yes the ring land is gone to F _ _ _. The rest of the pistons are not in very good shape either with rough surfaces and the edges starting to decay.

So now I'm replacing with Arias forged pistons and rings to match (150 canadian brand new with rings, fella had em, never used em here in town). Leaving the rest stock for now and hoping to run better fuel management with an AFC and highflow intank pump.

93LSivic

Wheres Jinxproof at? He beat the fawk out of his gsr motor that ran stock sleeves for the longest time. Something like 100+ passes (maybe even a much higher number?!) on the 1/4 and still daily driven. That motor was pushing 400+ hp and his motor now is up there too.

It all comes down to tuning. But I would say do pistons while your in there, you will thank yourself.

Speed PHreak

I'll have to agree with the majority and say that the pistons are the weakest link in our stock engines. Taking that in account tho, just b/c they are the weakest link doesn't mean you can't boost a healthy amount on them. I've know people to take LS engines to 14~18 lbs on 90% stock internals(block guard, and a P&P job on the head). LS engines are a lot stouter than what people give them credit for.

I personally have to CRXs, one 88 HF w/ a boosted LS for fun, one bone stock 91 Si for daily driving. Well due to a complication with the mini-me swap i'm doing on the daily, i've been forced to drive the boosted LS daily for about the past 2 weeks. Honestly it's not that bad at all. I run 10 lbs of boost all day, everyday. The thing about boosted cars is that if you keep your foot out of it, it'll drive for the most part like a regular Honda. Tho some people think that they have to be spoolin everywhere they go and are usually the ones blowin their cars up.

But as for the best bang for your buck compliment to a turbo, is going to be tuning by far. You can detontate @ 5lbs of boost and grenade a stock engine, or 20lbs on a built engine and grenade it. Either way, tuning saves your engine. Also adds life to it. Not just this FMU/inline pump/AFC crap either, it'll do untill on of thos breaks. By far the best and safest route, albeit more expensive, is to get a stnadalone straight off the bat. For some this is out of the question. But it's the best way... my $.02 tho

pub

Yeah Karl's running around 24lbs on stock sleeves w/ Haltech tuning and on a program that was based on another cars. I'm pretty sure he feeds that motor all the fuel it can eat as well. In my case, I'm lowering the bar quite considerably in order to keep it as streetable as possible. What pistons/rods would you guys recommend for such a setup? I plan on ordering parts ASAP and getting this thing up and boostin by the end of the year. ..College schedule/funds depending

jinxproof99

stock ls or b20 motors can take 10 lbs of boost on pump gas as long as fuel delivery is properly set up. i ran 12 lbs on the street and 20 lbs on the race gas w/afc/fmu/injectors. stock gsr block w/inlinepro headgasket. ran for over a year. daily driver, everyday.

*Boostwerks*

Well that's kind of a vague question.

"how long the motor will last?"

That is determined by SO many factors it's not even possible to determine If a great tuned boosted motor will last as long as a Stock N/A motor.

If good quality parts are there, then hey? I don't see why the motor couldn't last LONGER then it's stock equivilant.

Then again if your stock oil pump goes out on your N/A B16(example) then your in the market for a new engine.

My overall point in all this crap....

An engine's longevity is not nessicarily due to JUST the hard parts put into it. I think boosted engines are given an overall bad image of reliability because many people are boosting with no knowlege on the subject. They put on a turbo kit, keep raising the boost, and miss something that is very important to the engine surviving(Ignition retard for instance). Those horor stories get passed around, by those who do not know all the secrets of boosting, and therfore Boosted engine's are looked upon as "un-reliable" by 90 percent of the crowd.

Trust me. STOCK ENGINES(even the "weak" D series) CAN HOLD LARGE AMOUNTS OF BOOST AND LAST JUST AS LONG AS ANY OTHER ENGINE, as long as all area's of the "boosted realm" are looked at.