scspeed

I was thinking about doing ethanol injection over winter. I found some pretty cheep do it yourself kits online and have been reading a little about it. My question is, is if i run ethanol will it give me any more hp if i do not increase the boost or advance my timing? The reason Im asking this is because my car has already been tuned for the year and i really don't want to spend the money to re tune again for more boost or some other reason if i don't have to.

Motor/Turbo setup

GSR Motor 60k, 2k since rebuild
9:1 Comp ratio
JE Pistons
Eagle Rods
ARP Head Studs
OBX intake mani
AEM 3 bolt cam gears (Zeroed out as of now)
Borg Warner GM-8 turbo
New style SSAC mani
38mm wastegate
2.5 bar motorola map sensor
3 inch DP
2.5 inch charge piping
No name front mount (3" Inlet and outlet)
Chipped p06 with added Vtec transistors and datalogging
880cc PTE injectors
B+M FPR
HKS SSQ BOV
3 inch catback

The car was tuned by a local shop near me and is currently making roughly around 400whp

Let me know what you guys think. Like i said i am new to Water/Ethanol injection. Let me know if you have tried it and liked it or not and if you think it is worth it or not...

THANKS!

PIC

tony413

do not do this

boosted92

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony413 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">do not do this </TD></TR></TABLE>

Good worthless answer.

I don't run ethanol, I run methanol. Methanol is better, and I stopped bothering to mix with water after I found it makes more power just on meth.

You can run it without tuning, but you won't gain much power and the car will run quite rich. The whole advantage to meth is being able to add timing or boost and make more power on pump gas.

tony413

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted92 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Good worthless answer.

I don't run ethanol, I run methanol. Methanol is better, and I stopped bothering to mix with water after I found it makes more power just on meth.

You can run it without tuning, but you won't gain much power and the car will run quite rich. The whole advantage to meth is being able to add timing or boost and make more power on pump gas.</TD></TR></TABLE>

the poste already stated that he WAS NOT GOING TO TUNE the car. so what makes my post useless ? if it the fact that i didnt say no OP you will need to tune the car.

blow semantics

jdmland

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony413 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

the poste already stated that he WAS NOT GOING TO TUNE the car. so what makes my post useless ? if it the fact that i didnt say no OP you will need to tune the car.

blow semantics </TD></TR></TABLE>

Tony the Tiger

You haven't stated your intercooler size and capacity in detail, so I can't really give you an accurate answer. Next you need to tell me how much cc/min you plan to inject.

Picture a scenario when water/meth injection enters your motor. Without any fuel/ignition tuning, it's like driving your car during a super humid/rainy night. The car probably won't feel too strong though from the humidity... That's ONLY if your car runs cool, conservately tuned like most straight pump-gas tunes, and plenty of intercooling to keep IAT's close to ambient... That means your given intercooling and given fuel octane is plenty to support your current tune and power level. Injecting water/meth into this setup will probably lose power and response.

However, if we yank out that FMIC out of your car or bump up your static CR, you will notice your engine will LOVE humid weather instead... The water/meth injection offers cooling benefits and offset the space it takes inside the chambers (water is not combustible). It has reached a point that the cooling from evaporating meth/water will cool the air charge down and increase air density, and the engine is hot enough to quickly evaporate the water and create hot expanding gases.

If you notice that your intercooler is starting to max out (don't we all max out our FMIC's), or running high PSI (which in turn creates heat), rising IAT's, or your car is tuned close to detonation-limit on your given octane level, you will see a nice healthy power increase even without any tuning at all. You will have to adjust the water/meth flow on the dyno to achieve desired results without any tuning needed on fuel/ignition. I set up all my water/meth kits on my car in similar fashion, so that I still get small power gains but the motor is never depending on it. It's like adding 100 oct fuel for example, on an engine that is tuned on 94 at higher limits (no need to dumb down timing "just to be too safe" due to variables such as rising temps, heatsoak, etc) along with a healthy power increase and no drawbacks.

Now onto the topic of injecting straight meth, now you are substituting fuels. Meth runs at 6.0:1 AFR, so good luck determining what AFR the engine should be tuned at as your gradually increase meth flow to substitute gasoline. I personally never up timing, add boost or lean out AFR's and rest the life of my motor on a Shurflow pump, some meth nozzle that is never flow tested or balanced, and have my motor blow up when a meth line pops off, or a pump falls behind. We run into enough troubles trying to keep out injectors and fuel pump in check, now imagine trying to govern another meth pump and a whole **** load of parts in the fuel system. Good for a track car to extract power, but suicidal for a daily street car. Keep it simple.

scspeed

Thanks alot guys... Im definitely going to put alot more thought into this IF/ or Before i do it. Sounds like i would mostly gain benefit out of retuning, without its kinda just a wast of money... Im going to talk to the guy that tuned my car and see ifmaby he can retune me for cheaper seeing how i already was tuned by him once b4. If so i will prolly do methanol or race gas.


Do you guys just think i would benefit more from just doing a race gas tune if i do end up retuning? or going methanol?? This car is my dd that is why i thought methanol.

tony413

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by scspeed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks alot guys... Im definitely going to put alot more thought into this IF/ or Before i do it. Sounds like i would mostly gain benefit out of retuning, without its kinda just a wast of money... Im going to talk to the guy that tuned my car and see ifmaby he can retune me for cheaper seeing how i already was tuned by him once b4. If so i will prolly do methanol or race gas.


Do you guys just think i would benefit more from just doing a race gas tune if i do end up retuning? or going methanol?? This car is my dd that is why i thought methanol.</TD></TR></TABLE>

good decision just go get it retuned