Chris F

Hey. Sorry no pics, will try to post when done tuning.

I have a 98 ITR, stock internals, Greddy kit (310 CC injectors) + intercooler, Tial 38mm wastegate, E-Manage.

They're only adding 10% fuel in boost and it's still way rich. EGT's between 1300-1400. The dyno curve gets bumpy while the car is rich too. It makes more power than stock right at about 2800 RPM, but the peak is only 198-ish whp.

Why would it be so rich? It seems like it's misfiring based on the bumpiness of the graph. Either it could be because of the rich condition, or it could be causing the rich condition. EGT is also low.

I'm totally stumped. Tuner said he was working on it. Any ideas?

(Stock ignition coil, NGK plugs one step colder, Dizzy/car have 50K miles).

PrecisionH23a

I am assuming the plugs were gapped to .028-.030?

Rocks

WTF I thought the greddy kit had a internal wastegate. It say that you have a tial wastegate. Im confused

RacerXI

What mani. is that on?

Chris F

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PrecisionH23a &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am assuming the plugs were gapped to .028-.030?</TD></TR></TABLE>

.029

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rocks &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">WTF I thought the greddy kit had a internal wastegate. It say that you have a tial wastegate. Im confused</TD></TR></TABLE>

First started with the internal wastegate and Profec B Spec II. couldn't control the boost, even with the profec disabled, it was spiking to 9 pounds at 5800 RPM so we quit and started putting in the Tial. Internal wastegate is tack welded shut.

-Chris

PM-Performance

thats kinda weak. do you have the dyno plots and a/f plots?

if its too rich , dont add as much fuel

Chris F

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RacerXI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What mani. is that on?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Greddy B18c log manifold. Had to bore a hole and take out some of the internal runners to fit the Tial WG.

-Chris

Rocks

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ccfries &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Greddy B18c log manifold. Had to bore a hole and take out some of the internal runners to fit the Tial WG.

-Chris
</TD></TR></TABLE>

WTH. I have to see a picture of this to see how it was done. Please post a pic.

Chris F

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itr206 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thats kinda weak. do you have the dyno plots and a/f plots?

if its too rich , dont add as much fuel </TD></TR></TABLE>

holy crap, quick responses!

It is super weak. I don't have access to the dyno plot. A/F was 11.5 up to like 5000 RPM, then it went down from there. Yeah, it's gotta be leaner than that to make any power, but I figured we'd be adding like 50% fuel not 10%. 0% would be the same injector duty as atmospheric pressure.

Hmm...

We'll probably end up trying to use less fuel. Maybe it's accurate, and I'm not really misfiring.

PM-Performance

actually now im thinking of it , it might be accurate. .4bar is what like 6psi or so. then your using a greddy turbo. in order ot make power on those things your gonna need more boost becuase it just doesnt flow CFM's. all that coupled with a lets say low 11 to hi 10a/f. i can see why it only makes approx 30whp over stock.
i would lean it out and check the timing . ask the tuner what the total timing is, that will make a diff too

as far as needing to add more fuel . you would need to add more fuel if you were making enuff power to lean it out. you can make that power on stock injectors. you really prob didnt have to put almost any fuel in it for that set up

Chris F

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rocks &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

WTH. I have to see a picture of this to see how it was done. Please post a pic. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I got my camera in my wife's car, will take pics as soon as I pick it up.

Chillinit

post that ****....

DigitalFusion

wait, why are teh EGT's so high if it is running so rich? I am still being schooled in the art of tuning, but dont high EGTs = lean and/or timing problems? Someone elighten me

pngfolife

Bumpy dyno plots are usually indicative of light detonation. You should check timing since even with rich A/F mixtures, detonation can occur if ignition timing is too far advanced.

PM-Performance

i think it can also occur if they are tooo conservative, i dont think those EGTs are really hi. i think its normal .

Chris F

If it's running rich, EGT's go down. If the timing is retarded, they go up. I am hoping that both are true and I can lean it out to get the EGT's higher and then advance the timing a bit to get them closer to 1500 or so...

Hopefully the bumpiness in the graph isn't detonation, it SHOULDN'T be if the ignition is retarded and A/F is rich....

Will post details later when it's figured out.

PM-Performance

that makes no sense.

ATS*Mark

so you put a turbo kit on for 30whp?

Chillinit

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ccfries &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If it's running rich, EGT's go down. If the timing is retarded, they go up. I am hoping that both are true and I can lean it out to get the EGT's higher and then advance the timing a bit to get them closer to 1500 or so...

Hopefully the bumpiness in the graph isn't detonation, it SHOULDN'T be if the ignition is retarded and A/F is rich....

Will post details later when it's figured out.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

how high of an egt are you aiming for??

Charles B.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rocks &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

WTH. I have to see a picture of this to see how it was done. Please post a pic. </TD></TR></TABLE>

not his and not a close-up but you get the idea

TurblowR

wow i thought i made low hp. i got 210.5whp on .4bar(16 degree timing and 12:1 A/F) with my leak down at almost 20% on cylinders 2 and 3

Suprdave

You should get a Hondata...I already mentioned it to charlie.

I made 222whp\191tq ona Bone Stock D16Y8 - T3 Super 60 today on same Dyno.

10psi, 91 Octane...w00t.

I've also done 290whp ona Bone Stock ITR w\ Drag 3 Kit, S200 @ 9PSI on 93 Octane, conservative as ****.

SOHC_MShue

damn that is weak man

PM-Performance

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Suprdave &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You should get a Hondata...I already mentioned it to charlie.

I made 222whp\191tq ona Bone Stock D16Y8 - T3 Super 60 today on same Dyno.

10psi, 91 Octane...w00t.

I've also done 290whp ona Bone Stock ITR w\ Drag 3 Kit, S200 @ 9PSI on 93 Octane, conservative as ****.

</TD></TR></TABLE>


yea but look at the diff in boost levels, and turbo size. its all relative. he doesnt really have the injectors for much more power anyway

Johnyquest

Doesn't the s2k make 240hp w/ 240cc injectors? I was under the impression that they were indeed 240 cc.

So he could probably get away with like 210 whp, maybe even 220 or so safely since the bsfc will be higher than n/a motor with FI... That is, if I am remembering right.

Matt