Dupes

I have done a search for setups on b18b's with vortech s/c, but didnt find anything interesting. I was just curious to see what kind of set ups people in here had, and what kind of numbers their getting.

I have some plans to boost more in the next couple of months, and I'm curious to see you guys setup's

thank you in advance

b16sedan

Vortech's are a waste of money, research complete.

Dupes

thank you

I didnt want opinions on vortech, I'd like to see some setup's


Modified by Dupes at 1:41 PM 8/11/2005

EP3_05

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dupes &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thank you

I didnt want opinions on vortech, I'd like to see some setup's </TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't think you are going to get many responses since the Vortech is not popular especially on the b18b. Most people who supercharge use the roots type blower that comes with the Jackson racing setup. And those people are few and far between. Good Luck on your search.

Dupes

thanks!
its exactly what I taught.
Im sure I'll find someone, somewhere that has a b18b vortech s/c

channy

I have a b16a that i am just about finished running the vortech SC. I stuffed the Civic SIR kit into my crx, so far it has taken a lot of work and is the only one that I know of. I'm hoping to see some good numbers but it isn't quite ready for the dyno yet. Heres a little teaser pic, SORRY about the huge picture not quite sure how to shrink it down :

88crxhfb16

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by channy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have a b16a that i am just about finished running the vortech SC. I stuffed the Civic SIR kit into my crx, so far it has taken a lot of work and is the only one that I know of. I'm hoping to see some good numbers but it isn't quite ready for the dyno yet. Heres a little teaser pic, SORRY about the huge picture not quite sure how to shrink it down :
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hey man that is fuc*@!@ SICK. I don't think your gonna get Turbo like numbers, but I give you props for doing something different. I always wonder if you could make the SI kit work. I didn't have the ***** to try it, so i went the turbo route. Please get some vids of that **** when your done. I so want to hear that thing. Are U running engine Management??? Great job

channy

The car will be chipped and tuned after i'm done installing everything. Im not a fan of the fmu and setting timing at 12* and hoping it turns out ok.

As for numbers i'm not sure what to expect. Regardless though 250+whp in a 2000 pound car will be one very fast car for a daily driver (especially considering how cheap the kit was). There was a guy who had run a very simular setup to me on a 90-93 GSR and made 274whp and 186ft/lbs of torque. If I am anywhere near that I will be very happy. The next project im working on is building a 2.0L and running a little more boost, but that will be down the road. I'll try and get some videos of when I dyno it for everyone to see.

blahhhhhhhh

you should make 250 hp

b16sedan

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 88crxhfb16 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't think your gonna get Turbo like numbers</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not only do you not get the turbo like peak numbers, but the Vortech's take a **** kicking in the low and mid range compared to a turbo as well.

I owned one, and I sold it to take a fairly big loss to buy a turbo kit. Why would you want to do all that custom fab work to run a mediocre power adder in your car? That would be like doing all kinds of work to swap in a SOHC ZC into your ITR, it just don't make sense.

channy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b16sedan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not only do you not get the turbo like peak numbers, but the Vortech's take a **** kicking in the low and mid range compared to a turbo as well.

I owned one, and I sold it to take a fairly big loss to buy a turbo kit. Why would you want to do all that custom fab work to run a mediocre power adder in your car? That would be like doing all kinds of work to swap in a SOHC ZC into your ITR, it just don't make sense.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Seriously man, lay off the drugs, that stuff ain't good for you. Swapping the ZC into the ITR would be a major power loss. I'll be somewhere around doubling the output of a stock b16a.

Huge power downlow is a mixed blessing on fwd car. The point of this project wasn't to build high hp drag car, just to build a car you don't see everyday and learn along the way.

b16sedan

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by channy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Seriously man, lay off the drugs, that stuff ain't good for you. Swapping the ZC into the ITR would be a major power loss. I'll be somewhere around doubling the output of a stock b16a.

Huge power downlow is a mixed blessing on fwd car. The point of this project wasn't to build high hp drag car, just to build a car you don't see everyday and learn along the way.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Seriously man, lay off the drugs. Read what I said again. I compared the effort of putting an inferior power adder (vortech) into a car that it wasn't designed for to the same thing as swapping an inferior motor (sohc ZC) into a car it wasn't designed for.

True, huge low end power can be a mixed blessing, but we're not talking about 5 billion ft-lbs of torque at 2000 RPM's. We're talking about like 200-220 to the wheels by 3500-4000 RPM's for a decent turbo. That's not outrageous, and totally controllable on the street if you're not a fool. My SI with a turbo making 240 WHP untuned was faster than with the Vorturd at 280, and I didn't even have to deal with belt slip or changing pulleys.

channy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b16sedan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Seriously man, lay off the drugs. Read what I said again. I compared the effort of putting an inferior power adder (vortech) into a car that it wasn't designed for to the same thing as swapping an inferior motor (sohc ZC) into a car it wasn't designed for.

True, huge low end power can be a mixed blessing, but we're not talking about 5 billion ft-lbs of torque at 2000 RPM's. We're talking about like 200-220 to the wheels by 3500-4000 RPM's for a decent turbo. That's not outrageous, and totally controllable on the street if you're not a fool. My SI with a turbo making 240 WHP untuned was faster than with the Vorturd at 280, and I didn't even have to deal with belt slip or changing pulleys.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The kit was designed for this engine, just not to fit without some modification. Anything that doubles or close to the output of the engine is not a 'inferior power adder" in my mind. I would agree typically a turbo would have a better powerband, but that wasn't the point of the project, nor was a good turbo setup in the budget. As i am into this setup for next to nothing.

b16sedan

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by channy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The kit was designed for this engine, just not to fit without some modification. Anything that doubles or close to the output of the engine is not a 'inferior power adder" in my mind. I would agree typically a turbo would have a better powerband, but that wasn't the point of the project, nor was a good turbo setup in the budget. As i am into this setup for next to nothing.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ok, so running a T76 on a stock D16Y8 block is not an inferior power adder? You might get 500 RPM's of power but it could sure double the power of a stock Y8. Sure, you got into this setup for next to nothing, but with how uncommon Vorturd's are it's not likely this guy is going to stumble across a Vortech basically for free. And since this post was started by him, I was kinda aiming it in his direction.

Vp Special K

yo channy dont listen to that pubic hair...you got a nice project going, keep everybody updated on how it runs

channy

Thanks man. I won't be losing any sleep over him, just another kid and HT looking to boost his image. I might have some videos by sun/mon here. Although with the clutch in the car right now all I will be able to do is mid rpm pulls.

SlowB16si

for that set-up man, That will be a fun autoX car im sure.

b16sedan

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by channy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks man. I won't be losing any sleep over him, just another kid and HT looking to boost his image. I might have some videos by sun/mon here. Although with the clutch in the car right now all I will be able to do is mid rpm pulls.</TD></TR></TABLE>

If by boosting my image you mean trying to help other people from wasting their money on a Vortech setup like I did, then sure, I guess I'm trying to boost my image. I owned a Vortech and put over 10K miles on it, safe to say I know more about how it's going to drive than you do, considering you havn't even driven your car yet.

The powerband with the Vortech isn't very good, period. SiRacer's 350 WHP 84mm B16 with a Vortech at 15 psi made 330 WHP, and it only made 220 WTQ with a steady rising powerband instead of a typical turbo powerband where you get a nice plateau after boost comes in. For how little it can cost you to get into a turbo LS setup vs. all the custom stuff you'd have to do you'd need for a vortech, it just doesn't make sense to run the blower.

channy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b16sedan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If by boosting my image you mean trying to help other people from wasting their money on a Vortech setup like I did, then sure, I guess I'm trying to boost my image. I owned a Vortech and put over 10K miles on it, safe to say I know more about how it's going to drive than you do, considering you havn't even driven your car yet.

The powerband with the Vortech isn't very good, period. SiRacer's 350 WHP 84mm B16 with a Vortech at 15 psi made 330 WHP, and it only made 220 WTQ with a steady rising powerband instead of a typical turbo powerband where you get a nice plateau after boost comes in. For how little it can cost you to get into a turbo LS setup vs. all the custom stuff you'd have to do you'd need for a vortech, it just doesn't make sense to run the blower.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You really shouldn't assume as I know several people who also own the kit and helped one of those installs. I've driven it and rode as a passanger many times.

I guess seeing as though I have to spell this out for you a second time. This car IS NOT A DRAG CAR. Now put two and two together and explain to me what this powerband would be useful for.

Heres the exact setup as I'm looking to have. I've got the b20 in the garage and am waiting for a little cash to build it. Maybe I won't make as much power, maybe I will:

.dave

Where'd that graph come from, Microsoft Excel?

b16sedan

Ok, and what does a 2 litre blown race car have to do with the powerband you get out of a Vorturd on a B16 motor? Absolutely nothing, that's right. Let me say it one more time. Not being a drag car is all the more reason to run a turbo, and not a Vortech. That car is running cogs, and a big head unit that won't bolt up to your kit, and the powerband isn't even that great. Compare that vortech powerband to This 480 WHP turbo powerband. The Vortech car hits 400 WHP by about ~7500 RPM's. The turbo car hits 400 WHP by about 6100 (figured using HP + torque values). Now, tell me again why having less average horsepower is beneficial in any way to a car, just because it's "not a drag car", as you're touting?

channy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b16sedan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok, and what does a 2 litre blown race car have to do with the powerband you get out of a Vorturd on a B16 motor? Absolutely nothing, that's right. Let me say it one more time. Not being a drag car is all the more reason to run a turbo, and not a Vortech. That car is running cogs, and a big head unit that won't bolt up to your kit, and the powerband isn't even that great. Compare that vortech powerband to This 480 WHP turbo powerband. The Vortech car hits 400 WHP by about ~7500 RPM's. The turbo car hits 400 WHP by about 6100 (figured using HP + torque values). Now, tell me again why having less average horsepower is beneficial in any way to a car, just because it's "not a drag car", as you're touting?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Do you not see what engine I will be running, it will be a 2 litre bottom end with the b16a head and yes it infact does bolt up. How many turbo roadrace cars have you seen? There is a reason why typically a person will not run a turbo on a fwd honda on the roadcourse. The powerband comes on smoothly with the vortech kit, unlike that of a turbo. I have nothing against turbos (they are great poweradders), but closed minded individuals such as yourself give me a headache.

channy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by daveG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Where'd that graph come from, Microsoft Excel? </TD></TR></TABLE>
lol possibly

b16sedan

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by channy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Do you not see what engine I will be running, it will be a 2 litre bottom end with the b16a head and yes it infact does bolt up. How many turbo roadrace cars have you seen? There is a reason why typically a person will not run a turbo on a fwd honda on the roadcourse. The powerband comes on smoothly with the vortech kit, unlike that of a turbo. I have nothing against turbos (they are great poweradders), but closed minded individuals such as yourself give me a headache. </TD></TR></TABLE>

The V1/V2 S-trim they're using on that car doesn't share any of the same mounting hardware as your V5 F-trim/G-trim blower and will not bolt up to the brackets, period. You arn't going to be able to run more than 8 psi on the shitty 4-rib stock drive system or you get bad belt slip, and even the 8-rib system Payn sells is inadequate for boost levels over around 12 pounds of boost. To run as much boost on that car as they did you need to run cogs, and incase you didn't know cog belts don't like cars with manual transmissions. Downshifting and upshifting loads and unloads the belt, and you very frequently shed the teeth off of belts. But, of course, since I'm narrow minded and a "pubic hair" as special k so maturely put it, I wouldn't know the first thing about centrifugal blowers.

And did you ever stop and think that the reason you don't see a lot of turbocharged road race hondas is because they arn't allowed in basically any SCCA/NASA road race class? That's like saying "Ever wonder why you don't see a lot of Supras in NHRA SFWD?"

For weekend racers, there's lots of them around here. Boosted Hybrid tracks his turbo hatch, my old SI saw the road course and autox frequently (although with the vortech blower it was severly lacking on the mid range to pull you out of corners, especially somewhere like 6 and 7 on Road Atlanta), Austrian Type-R open tracks his turbo ITR a lot with over 400 WHP, and I know there was another guy in here with a turbo ITR at 300+ WHP that he open tracked as well. You mentioned the power curve of turbos coming on being bad for the road course, but I don't see that as being a problem at all. IF I wanted to I could use the AEM to bring in boost linearly with RPM's and basically match the boost curve of a centrifugal blower, but you can't control the blower to match the boost curve of a turbo for those long straights, or even some corners where you can use more than 150 ft-lbs of torque.