That is me reading through this whole thread...

KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid)

For GSR cams, just use something that has been proven to work time and time again; Blox, Skunk2, SuperTech, Ferrea, Jun, etc. Any one of those brands will work JUST FINE for such puny cams.

 

Just make sure the seat pressure meets the requirement of the cam and add some saftey factor.

 

No, no no.. DC4KiD.. He said it himself. He doesn't want that kind of information. It's not useful to him, if you recall. . It is best that he research and get the type of information he's looking for regarding Honda B-series valvetrain by using empirical data that is rarely (if ever) reasonably available. We should let him pursuit that research in peace, without passion or prejudice.

It's time that we stand back, and let life do the teaching here.

 

Right, normally a person would choose a valve spring from EMPIRICAL DATA, that ALL spring manufacturers provide (that was for Shodan), based off the requirements of the cam. That information is also always available from the cam maker. The problem is that boost throws another variable into the equation. Additional pressure on both sides of the head is adding opening force to the valves and so the requirements become a bit greater than what the cam alone needs.

I talked to Miller and Speed Factory both today and got the information that I needed. Both actually had the exact same answer. All I was after was "this is the spring rate that you need and this is a decent maker of said spring", but instead I got answers that were about as helpful as if a potential work truck buyer asked somebody, "what truck should I buy if I need to haul x amount of gravel over x amount of distance daily" and the answer they were given was, "buy a Chevy".

My personal favorite was the guy that said "Blox, Skunk2, SuperTech, Ferrea, Jun, etc. Any one of those brands will work JUST FINE for such puny cams."

BXPT-10300
SPR-H100DR
SPR-H1002D
SPRK-H200DR
311-05-7350
311-05-5350
344-05-1300
S2014
S10064
S10070
S10027
S10086
S10104
1009M-H001

Those are all of the springs that he suggested. As you can see some manufacturers have several different flavors. All of which have height, seat pressure, spring rate, pressure @X, coil bind, etc specifications.
Screw it. I'll just right em all down on little pieces of paper and put em in a bingo machine and choose at random.

I remember back in the day when Courtney Greene made like 802 whp on GSR cams. I guess he just used whatever. Ya know, because GSR cams are puny and no other build specs matter.
So go ahead and wink and rolleyes all you want. I showed this thread to my friend that is an engineer for Federal Mogul. He got a good laugh at some of your answers. That's how they make ball joints you know.. They just pic a manufacturer in Mexico and just say, "just make whatever we like your brand"

 

My point was that you have to look up those manufacturers to have the measurements and specs you wanted. What you found wasn't empirical data (not by a long shot), that's the standard information all Honda valve springs give from these manufacturers. Its ok to be upset because you didn't want to look them up. Now that you have, you see now why it couldn't have been narrowed down like you wanted based upon your original inquiry. We gave those names because they have the standard measurements there that you considered to be "empirical".

Glad you guys had a laugh.. still wasn't at my expense, though. You did what you were supposed to do, by talked with Miller and speed factory. At least you went beyond "what valve springs do I use"? If you asked that originally to these two professional organizations, they'd have "rolled their eyes too".

But. the cool thing now is that at least you know how to ask the right questions.

 

All springs break in and typically lose some height and therefore, seat pressure. I just took apart 8 LS7 heads and most of the valve springs were a touch shorter than what new would have been (these were all low mileage warranty motor).
More than likely the ancient Jun springs that you had were already broken in and that's why you are not seeing a difference between when you installed them and when you checked them later.
Did you by chance have these?:

Part Number: SPRK-H200DR
Type: Dual Spring
Press.Seat: 100 @33.5
Press.Open: 222 @10
Max Lift: 13mm
Coil Bind: 20.mm
Rate: 12.20mm
Retainer: RET-K20A2/T2+Fact Seat or Seat-H1002D
Details:
DRAG ONLY (2hr max life)
View More
OutSpr.OD: 30.2mm
OutSpr.ID: 22.20mm
InnSpr.OD: 22.20mm
InnSpr.ID: 16.80mm

Note how they say "2hr max life"

 

Jesus Fing Christ.
If somebody asks you what suspension springs would you run in a weekend warrior road course EK hatch of x f/r weight bias that will see commuter use on the highway, would you give an answer as vague as, "just run eibachs"?
Again, all I was looking for was, "x spring pressure/rate will work for you based on your given specifications and these are reputable brands". I thought I made that fairly clear. I'm sorry if I confused anybody. Springs specifications for x requirements are regularly discussed when talking to people about domestic motors. It's very sad that the best information I can get on Honda-tech was just run xyz brand and abc brand sucks.

 

More people ask that than you think. And the answer would have been a response question to that would have been "Gee, those, eh? What other reasons behind that would you say that?" Then find out on my own what competitor applications there are out there, then get the information by asking the right questions to those inquiries... Dude, this can go on and on. You're making this rather circular.

The "X" requirements in Domestic world compared to the Honda world were vague, so that's why you originally received some negative retorts regarding your questions. People on this forum keep things rather simple especially when running an OEM camshaft that didn't require the "X" factors you're thinking are pertinent in your questions.

You feel slighted and disrespected. Knowing how cold-hearted sights like the bullet and LS1tech.com can be, I'm just rather surprised how effected you've become from this. You want simple answers to what you perceive as simple questions; you can't, just like in the domestic car world, in which you have to go a little beyond a few keystrokes to find out what you need.

Instead of giving you a fish, I'm simply trying to teach you how to fish in a Honda-infested pond; nothing more, nothing less.

Relax, keep calm.. Maybe have a sip of whiskey to cool your nerves a little.

Good luck to you and your options for your build.

 

He's turning into the ex-girlfriend that always wants the last word in the argument, right or wrong. Just let him be, Shodan, just let him be.

 

Ah... of course. *sigh*.. Good call.

 

Best advice in this thread..

 

People dont think about springs in so much detail in the Honda world because they arent running big *** custom, lopey, high lift cams like an LSx. Simply matching the same brand of cam and their recommended spring is what most do .

BTW it took about 10 seconds to find this thread:

Discussion about valve spring requirement - Team Integra Forums - Team Integra

 

I saw that thread. It helps zero.

I'm not trying to get the last word. I'm just trying to point out that the majority of the answers in here have been mostly useless and based more on ego than physics. I'm trying to have a real discussion about the requirements of valve springs in a boosted application. Somehow people keep missing the word boosted. If I wasn't gonna consider boost at all, I'd just run totally stock springs, since obviously, they were designed specifically for the cams that I'm running. With my mr2, this process was easy. I found a company that claimed that their valve spring matched their cam combined with a maximum boost rating. My requirements were a little less.

But in with the honda, I'm getting vague "just run anything" advice. Or I'm told to just pick xyz company. Nevermind that xyz company might offer a ridiculous 100+ lbs seat pressure spring that would not only kill power in my application, but probably break the stock 2 piece valves and concave my seats.

It's become very clear to me why every time I get on here I see the "supertech/manley/ferrea,etc. sucks, killed my motor" threads.

 

Also, just for arguments sake, I'd like to point out that I was attacked 1st. So, to be even, I would have to get the last word. You wouldn't let somebody punch you without punching back would you?

 

I agree, but only half the answer needed

 

Here, I'll try to be more specific in simple terms.

How much spring pressure should be added on top of stock for a GSR cam combined with 20 or so #s of boost with a modest increase in rev limit? I don't care about brand recommendations.

Does that input calculate in the Shodan computer? LOL.

 

Get the surface area of the top of the valve and do the calculation.

From Crane Cams:

 

I'm glad lighteningteg is able to contribute with this information to you. You're not going to get any better information than that. That may be because of your egotistical standard investigative abilities with a lack of "trust" of others that have already performed these upgrades, and not because of some conjured up imaginary form of "attack" that you believe that I've come at you with. Thanks Lighteningteg, that should be around for a while.

Please get your perceptions within focus, my friend. My genuine goal was to allow you the opportunity to try and focus your inquires in such a way as to get the answers yourself for now, and for future investigations into the Honda B-series world of proper upgrades and modifications; not some elaborate ploy to "troll" on random people's threads for the sake of feeding some demented ego-trip that you seem to claim that I have.

This is your engine, and your car. If you decide to go your course of action based upon the feeling that I have some ridiculous reason to try and steer you in an ill-fated direction...well, that's something you must deal with. I'll go to bed very easily with a clear conscience. If you think that what I've said is an "attack" on you, well, heh.. After experiencing quite a few other people on this forum after a while, you'll come to know me as "the nicer one" on here. Most here aren't nearly as courteous.

I truly intend for you to have good luck with this, despite your feelings of being obstructed. But, sure. Go ahead and have the last swing. (ahem.. I'm sorry, I meant word). I'll back away quietly.

Seriously, (and truly) good luck to you, sir.