efHondefender

Shooting for 400whp on a b18c/LS crank build with a holset.
I'm wanting to run the stock valves with gsr cams to maybe 8500 or so rpms.
What valve springs do you guys like for this goal?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

If the valve springs are not new, be prepared to experience some valve flat. The choice in springs are based upon camshaft and driving style both now and future, not power level.

If your the type of guy that "likes to rev", thinking that staying in the higher rpm ranges fits your driving style, get higher seeing seat pressure springs. It's not how high you are taking the engine to, it's how often you're doing it, and it's duration. That's where the problem occurs.

If using a GSR cam, not going to the higher rpm ranges much, and don't bounce off of the limiter like an idiot, skunk2 alpha springs or supertech HD series can work.. If planning on using other cams outside the oem, and plan to abuse the valvetrain, then use appropriate valvesprings that work with that cam spec

ls joker

8500 rpms or so lol.

skunk2 xp, supertech dr seriez, maybe the gsc kit. back in 2006-07 i went crane springs on my cammed da

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

That's not my point. I understand he stated 8500rpms. But there's a difference in having 8500rpm in a street condition, and someone laying out 4th gear and bouncing off of 8500rpms trying to make sure that they can cross the finish line of a drag strip without going to 5th gear.

I've had plenty of people (one comes to mind) that only went to 8500rpms and used Type R OEM valvetrain, only to cause valve float and destroy the head because he didn't necessarily understand that RPM isn't the killer of the engine. Its the lower spring seat pressure of the Type R valvetrain allowing that valve float to cause the cylinder head's demise.

ls joker

lol i was physically laughing at the fact that he said 8500 rpms or so. everytime someone says thats in earlier stages it never happens lol. its more like 9k range

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

That is very true.

efHondefender

Horsepower does matter when you consider it takes boost to do it. 20psi is 20 pounds per square inch on the back of the intake valve trying to push the valve open. Is it not? I'm totally fine with an 8500 rpm limit, as that's as far as my tach goes anyway. LOL. I don't think GSR cams are gonna do much up there anyway. I just need a good stable spring for these requirements without having an overkill seat pressure. It's not very efficient if I have to use a bunch of power just trying to force a cam past valve springs that are unreasonably stiff.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Well. You know what you know...

Good luck with your decision. You seem to have it all figured out, in this case.

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

Oem valve springs if they're in good condition will take 8500-9000 rpm with boost behind them for a lousy 400hp (which dep being on turbo will be 15-20 psi) for drag racing or street beater application. For a road race setup where you'll be in the upper rpm range you'll want something with higher seat and open pressures. Supertechs are garbage get some skunk2's crower gsc springs if money is tight otherwise Ferrea and nothing else

rudebwoy

iTrader: (1)

KMS

ls joker

i so forgot about ferrea

efHondefender

Less interested in brand recommendations. More interested in specification requirements.
Also, this is a daily driver that will see the occasional test n tune at the drag strip. I'm assuming somewhere in the ball park of 400whp with a Holset HE351 in the neighborhood of 20psi. 400 is my target because I'm trying to keep it from breaking and on pump gas.

efHondefender

what's wrong with supertech springs?

ls joker

ls joker

lately theyve been seeming like hit or miss. but install error hasnt been ruled out

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Brand recommendations have everything to do with specifications. Not all companies have a variety of spring seat pressures needed for what I stated above. That's why we went by brand, and not specific numbers all day. Those brand have the specs needed for your driving style

blackeg

jeez. I've been using them for years. street limiter@ 8300 track its @8700. I had it at 9000 and after hitting limiter coming out of 1st gear at the track it data logged 9300 rpm. inertia I guess...

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

that didn't mean they aren't competing with less distance each time you hit that limiter.. Glad it's working for you, though

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

25 ish passes on a brand new set of supertechs. They lost 20lbs of seat pressure in that short amount of time with GSC turbo cams 9500rpm limiter. Had some
Ancient jun springs with years of abuse and lots of miles that didn't lose any seat pressure. Supertechs are junk. Just because you haven't floated a valve doesn't mean they haven't lost seat pressure and overall pressure. They even lost overall height. If your running them if be inspecting testing pressures frequently

efHondefender

hmm Ferrea carries 6 different springs for a b18c1. So somebody saying "run Ferreas" doesn't help me much. Is there a general rule of thumb when it comes to valve spring rate when considering the variables (lift, duration, boost pressure, rpm, rocker ratio, roller vs flat tappet, etc.)

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

It does at least narrow it down. Ferrea is just one of the examples that has more options and choices than others.

Look, you're not going to get a full specification list of the spring seat pressures from every company thrown at you. What you need to do is ask the right question to ask us, after you've done some preliminary research...

Eg.. "Since I have ITR camshafts, what are the spring seat pressures of the ITR valvetrain, so that I can narrow down which companies offer similar products to work with these camshafts?"

Then you can focus on the valvetrain itself

"I've found the thread online about ITR camshafts vs. Aftermarket companies, and they list what kind of valvetrain should go with the camshafts, which is ITR. I can't find ITR valvetrain very readily, so which companies have valvetrains that are comparable with my ITR camshafts?"

See? I'm really not trying to insult your intelligence. I mean no insult, so try not to take it that way. I am trying to get you to understand that this forum is not like most where you're going to get a lot in the first couple of general question posts.

You have to be a bit more specific with your question, after you've gone through the resources here. I know the search engine on this site is embarrassing, but since Google is better, you can narrow things down by putting in "site:Honda-Tech.com" and that will keep you here.

Look at other similar setups that have the components you plan to use, and see what their using. Then independently look at the companies they used and see if its right for you.

I think that's the disconnect you're having with others on here. You're getting a little annoyed with the responses because they aren't specific to your inquiry. The issue isn't really the responses, its just the way you're phrasing the questions. We aren't you.. we don't pretend to be you, so we don't know your mechanical inclination, experience in other platforms or other life experiences that you've had that would be relevant.

We don't need your life story, but you can show that you have more than what is originally stated by taking a step back, do a bit of thinking about what you're looking for, before you ask. that way the questions can be separated and addressed, and if done well, will be kept long enough for others with the same question to get pointed in the right direction..

So.. with all that out of the way, try it again one more time, after you've looked into the companies that were given to you by others, and we can all continue from there. Happy, and no hyperactive ego-manic behaviour from anybody. ok?

efHondefender

I just look at everything from an engineering standpoint. Like what are the goals and what are the minimum requirements for said goals. Spring selection should be based on the requirements of the spring. Manufacturer of whatever spring is required would be my secondary consideration.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

You're more than likely not going to get the amount and type of engineering data that your requesting. Not with a lot of these B-series choices.

So, again..You know what you know.

efHondefender

I was recommended, by a very prominent person in the Honda racing/tuning/building community, to run OEM springs. It's safe to say that is a very honest answer considering he had all the opportunity in the world to sell me something.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Then if you feel confident of the answer given by this anonymous "prominent" individual...Then you no longer need any assistance. Question answered and end thread.