95DxSi-R2

so I've been researching some on the use of a vacuum pump to remove boost psi from inside the block. So i was wondering about the use of an electric vacuum pump and using an in-line resistor to slow the motor down, or use an orifice type restriction to controller the amount of vacuum being used. What are your thoughts?
what are the pro's using, i'm trying to be budget friendly here.

DaveF

you are wasting your time tryin to pull vacum on a boosted honda engine. our engine creates so much pressure in the crankcase, it blows the relief valve open, blows oil all over the firewall, and all over the engine bay/bottom of the car.... it was dripping off the wheelie bars before....

since then we have put 2, -16 hoses on the front of the valvecover, along with a properly vented can, and havent had the problem since.

95DxSi-R2

i'm planning on a 300 h.p. set-up right now, but some time from now i will be going for around 800 h.p.
your saying it's not worth removing unwanted psi from the block?
this will be daily driven.

njn63

I've seen a couple articles about using them on n/a v8's and the gains were good. I havn't heard anything one way or the other on a boosted application though.

I always thought it was kinda weird that no one was using them in the import camp.

OLD_HATCH

What about the use of a crankcase evac system?

Something like this



and running your pvc and valve cover breather to a catch can and then to that exhaust driven vac valve?

95DxSi-R2

haven't heard of that one, i don't want to do the old school exhaust method.

OLD_HATCH

well its definately budget.

the only other thing would be running the valve cover breather and pvc to the catch can and then to a small intake tube port on the turbo inlet.

but again I dont think the catch can will hold all the oil and some will trickle into the compressor.

I too am undecided as to how Im gonna run my system. Street driven car and dont want to spend to much.

if all else fails you can just put a breather on the catch can and leave it at that.

DaveF

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95DxSi-R2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
it's not worth removing unwanted psi from the block?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

its worth it to drill large diameter holes in your valve cover, to vent the engine.....

but to seal the engine up, then try to pull vacum from it, is just retarded. you will need a 5 stage dry sump system at least, and even then i dont think it would keep up with the pressure in the crankcase.

Kyle R

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dturbocivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

its worth it to drill large diameter holes in your valve cover, to vent the engine.....

but to seal the engine up, then try to pull vacum from it, is just retarded. you will need a 5 stage dry sump system at least, and even then i dont think it would keep up with the pressure in the crankcase.</TD></TR></TABLE>

njn63

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dturbocivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

its worth it to drill large diameter holes in your valve cover, to vent the engine.....

but to seal the engine up, then try to pull vacum from it, is just retarded. you will need a 5 stage dry sump system at least, and even then i dont think it would keep up with the pressure in the crankcase.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Um... they do it on much bigger engines than a Honda. I think you're exaggerating a little bit without trying it first.

DaveF

have you had 1st hand experiance ? i know it doesnt work for **** with a single stage vacum pump.

what "big" engine are you talking about? are they pushing 40 psi of boost ? spining 10k ?

you have to look at your cards 1st....

hemichik

WOW

DaveF

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hemichik &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">WOW</TD></TR></TABLE>

very informative

hemichik

YEAH I KNOW, OTHERWISE I WOULDNT HAVE TRIED IT

DaveF

why dont you post what you found from your experiance's then ? i certainly dont know **** compared to alot of people.

hemichik

why should i have to post it when my husband did.I said wow, because i was reading what he wrote.You would be amazed how smart some people are.That is why I said wow.

DaveF

lol, forgive me, but i dont know who your husband is or if he even posted on here. i just figured you were another internet smart *** !
can you point out his post ? im assuming his name is "95DxSi-R2" being that this person has a dodge "hemi" truck in his sig ?


Modified by dturbocivic at 2:20 PM 8/4/2007

95DxSi-R2

Flashmn

Howbout using a diesel vacuum pump. As diesels dont have any throttle plates, they dont have vacuum either, thus they have a pump to create it for the systems.

95DxSi-R2

good guess dtturbo

NJIN BUILDR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by OLD_HATCH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What about the use of a crankcase evac system?

Something like this



and running your pvc and valve cover breather to a catch can and then to that exhaust driven vac valve?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have used these on circle track cars and the do work.Their reliability usually sucked.They can also suck a lot of oil into the exhaust.
The electric ones don't have enough ***** to make any vacuum.Moroso makes a couple belt drive ones that will help,but the best I have used are the Jones ones. http://www.jonesracingproducts.com/
You will need to be spot on with you catch can baffling.

DaveF

imo, it has to do with placement of the vent on the engine, to achieve the best possible "relief" and not carry so much oil. this also has to do with hose diameter, a smaller hose is more likely to carry oil, than a large hose. if using a catch can, the vent on the catch can needs to be a good size as well, if not, then you would pretty much be in the same situation as using a small hose to try to vent the engine. i dont belive in baffles, unless its needed, and the vent cannot be placed in a "favorable" position on the engine(as well as a favorable size)
1 inch vents or dont do it at all if we could simply fit 2 breather filters (1.75 inlet, 2inch tall/3inch dia) on the valve cover, this should work just as good as all these huge catch tanks we see popping up.

95DxSi-R2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NJIN BUILDR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


You will need to be spot on with you catch can baffling.</TD></TR></TABLE>
huh?

I pretty much figured the longevity of the exhaust set-up would suck.
took a peek at the jones website, i will be looking at that. thank you

dturbo-I'm beginning to wonder if using the vacuum pump is a waste of time or not.
I'm going to need a catch can anyway (nhra rules), but if the psi is relieving through the catch can then why worry about it? i'm still going to need a pump for the brake booster.
what are the sfwd cars using, i've never been to an event before (regular catch can, i would imagine the hoses being bigger.

DaveF

this is all you need, you definitly do not want to waste a single penny on a vacum pump. we have an external oil pump on both of our hotrod cars. spinning 10k/40 psi of boost, 800hp. we completly sealed the engine, and tried using the single stage vacum pump, it does pull good vacum at idle/light loads, we have a relief valve that allows for differant shims to achieve differant vacum levels. i would imagine this would be fine for an all motor car, but it certainly could not keep up with our engines. (read my 1st post directly below yours at the very top of this page.)

since we have switched to this setup we have not had one single overflow or even a hint of it filling like it was in the begining. we still run the vacum system, but its not doing ****, its just all hooked up to "keep the pump happy"



honestly you dont need a catch can that big, you can take a normal (3inch diameter/8inch tall) catch can, lay it sideways, put the 2 fittings (-16) on the side or bottom of it, and use 2 large breather filters on it, as long as the air pressure has a place to go, it will work beautifuly.

here is what im talking about, dont mind the shitty drawing.



here is our oil pump, one section is vacum, the other is pressure section for the oil, the thing on the end is the mechanical fuel pump.



this is the relief valve i spoke of that blows oil all over the place with a sealed engine... oh yea and the dip stick will shoot the hell out too, and blow oil all over your turbo manifold...



here is our hotrod hatch.


here is our hotrod coupe.

DaveF

oh yea, and if you think you "might" be able to get away with a conventional catch can with a single -12 hose and a single filter, think again, that **** will fill/overflow in one single pass !