Bseriescivic5

Problem resolved, Please delete Mods.
Thanks for all the help.

Psychoteen101

Typically when the car does that "two step" at around 4k, its the ECU basically putting it into a limp mode because of an injector(s) issue. But that should throw a CEL. Are you positive it does not have a code stored? Just cause there isnt a light on, doesnt mean it doesnt have a code.

nowtype

Who is your tuner?

kyden

have you tried a diff distributor? thats most common when the ecu goes into limp mode.

Bseriescivic5

Have tryed 3 dizzys, no noticeable change although it got a bit cleaner with the idle on the 3rd one we tryed, figured it had other problems, but the fresh rotor and cap may have helped. Changed the plugs several times as well, since we were fouling them quite quickly. The Tuner is extremely compitent, spent countless hours trying to troubleshoot with us. I dont think it has a stored code, this was the first place we started looking for problems. Will check again tonight. In the begining we had an injector problem, and I had the injectors sent out and cleaned/tested. Is there a possibility that I could still be having an injector issue? (I am running a resistor box with these (have tryed 3 different res. boxes also, all with little to no change in symptoms))

nowtype

My guess is you have a solid CEL. 4k rev limiter=solid cel 99% of the time.

I think you should get a new tuner. Based on your method of trouble shooting he is either giving you bad advice or you aren't listening to them. The way you are trouble shooting is ridiculous.

Bseriescivic5

Motor has been compression and leak down tested as well.... 230-240psi on all cylinders, valve lash has been set and re-checked 3x times. The only other thing we could think of was that it had a bent valve, but the motor runs and idles pretty decent so it doesnt seem like this is the case. Mechanical timing is dead on, no issues with teeth slipping or anything like that. I mean for a while we just though she needed a tune, and that may still be the case right now, in our previous appointments with the tuner, we never even made it far enough to set really any perameters, car would not stay running. But, i dont want to waste anyones time, IE the tuner, pay to basically accomplish nothing, and then still have to bring the car back to tune for real.

Really frustrating, and this is the first time myself or my builder (has built countless motors/turbo setups) has ever had this much trouble trying to get motor to run right before tuning.

Any ideas/ thoughts are much appriciated, we are scratching our heads over here.

Bseriescivic5

How is my method of trouble-shooting rediculous? Im not looking to get bashed here, just looking for possible in-sight towards my problem. Car does not have a solid cel. It is possible however, that the ECU im using is junk. Will swap out tonight with a new ECU with a basemap.

95dxsir2

i had kinda the same issue. would rev fine, but would flutter around 6500k
when dyno tuned it would rev to only 5500k and break up. almost like an ignition problem.
i had used 450cc dsm injectors that were "cleaned and flow tested". tried a diff ecu, 2 dizzy's, spark plugs, wires. bought a harness. same ****, replaced the head gasket, same ****. replaced the cleaned and flow tested 450 injectors with some 1000ID's. problem solved. try a diff set of injectors.
also had no codes.

Psychoteen101

What your experiencing is not mechanically caused, it is electrical or ECU related. If you have a bent valve, it would still rev up, just lack compression. Change your injectors for different ones and see if the problem persists. Also, try disconnecting the battery. If the code is stored, but the CEL is off, the code might still cause the ECU to not let you rev past 4k. If changing the injectors doesnt fix it, then check all your wiring to the resistor box...

Bseriescivic5

Resistor box checked, looks good, The injector suggestion is more and more starting to look like an issue. This is one spot on my setup that I did not buy brand new (although they were soppose to be brand new from a member on here). ECU is not the problem, and the dizzy is not the problem (used a 100% good spare dizzy and stock computer). Switching out injectors now for a good set of stock ones and see where that puts us. Bottom line is I need to get to a baseline and move forward from there. Will be taking turbo/manifold, ect all off and putting on stock header, ect if the different set of stock injectors does not solve the problem. Thanks for all your help guys.

95dxsir2

don't bother the hassle of removeing the turbo. just put a set of injectors in

Psychoteen101

If you put on stock injectors, make sure they are good to use with the resistor box, most stock honda injectors dont run a resistor box...

Bseriescivic5

Yeah I know, Completely turned car back to stock last night and was testing, still same problem. Going to open up the exhaust cutout tonight, see if that helps. Throwing 1 code, which is the O2 sensor, since its not hooked up (in prep for wideband) dont think that would cause these issues though. Ill see if I can re-hook it up and re-test.

Mikey3000

do you have a fuel pressure gauge on the car? if so, what does it do when you rev, what is it at idle?

narfdanarf

checked the tps wires and map sensor wires? I had a similar problem when the map sensor wires were not matched up and wired backwards.

92redhatch

Who is your tuner?????

rat city rex

Wow, after all this work do you have a wideband on it? Rev it up to where it breaks up and look at your afr's? You are making this a bigger issue than it is. If you want to rule out the turbo, put a 1way check valve in the wg vaccum line that way it stays open when the car sees vac, and the exhaust will bypass the turbo.

Psychoteen101

Yea, this can cause the problem. With no O2 hooked up, the ECU will run in limp mode since you have no signal coming from the O2

Bseriescivic5

I do Not have a fuel pressure guage in the engine bay, will check this as well. If the fuel filter is clogged/ not enough fuel pressure this would explian some of these symptoms. Also, will be putting in O2 sensor as well to eliminate that variable as well. I have not had a wideband in the car since the tuner was last here and we really didnt get far, so I cant even remember what values we were getting at idle (car wouldnt even stay running long enough/rough *** idle ) for him to really do anything. Since then, we found out I had a bad engine harness, replaced that, car idled much better. Then the map sensor was wired incorectly (my fualt) and my builder fixed that along with the TPS (replaced).

Did not get to mess with car last night, hopefully will have some time later in the week. I GREATLY appriciate all the help guys, and ill keep you posted with whats going on. Here is a workflow of where I am going as far as future diagnosis:

1) hook up o2 sensor, see if this helps (car is fully stock now (stock injectors, no res. box, stock ecu)

2) look at fuel system (fuel filter clogged? base fuel pressure, how does fuel pressure change with respect to increased RPMs)

3) Possibly hook up wideband and see where we are at, but really it seems that there are bigger issues at hand. (with everything being stock minus the turbo/manifold, it shouldnt matter waht the AFR's are, at least untill I establish a baseline in stock trim) after that we can start adding parts on and hopefully identify the culprit.

4) open up exhaust to the 3" cutout. for all the testing so far I have been running it shut and through the stock exhaust, which for all I know could have a clogged cat, too small piping, or otherwise heavilly restricted

I will report back with my findings.

As for the question about "who is my tuner" that is something I will not disclose as per the fact that this does not imply his fualt (he is well known and respected). In fact he has been of great help thus far was able to burn me a basic basemap just to trouble shoot issues here free of charge. Its pretty obvious to me that the car is not ready to be tuned, there are some issues here that must be handled before a proper tune can be done. Once again, thanks so much for your help guys, and i will forward this thread to my builder so we can discuss further options and where we are going to go moving forward.
Greg.

Bseriescivic5

Just spoke with my builder again.... He swapped out the injectors for another stock set we have around the shop, really no change in symptoms except that it would not want to rev past 2-2500rpms with out serious hiccups/breaking up...ect. Also goes immediately to "0" vac. as soon as you put the peddle down, turbo starts spooling hard. Will report back with more info as it becomes available.

Qestion: would a clogged exhaust cause the turbo to want to spool with no load? This logic seems backwards to me.

andrewk

THE O2 IS AN ISSUE.
if your car has no clue what it's burning it's not gonna add any fuel. especially higher rpm its gonna stop you from leaning out ridiculously. also instead of disconnecting all of the turbo stuff why not just take off the intake pipe coupler at the intercooler so it doesn't build any boost.

i would still try the o2 asap it just screws in and you plug it in... could eliminate alot and a simple elimination of another code your throwing. just about any vital emmission/pgmfi code from honda will put it in limp mode.

Bseriescivic5

Got it. Will do that asap, although im not even sure I have a decent condition O2 sensor. Will get a new one if need be. Also will take off one of the charge pipes to eliminate boost reaching motor. Thanks for the input guys, will report back after further testing.

I have boosted other setups with no O2 sensor and never had any issues like this. Thats why it was not the first place we started looking. Will report back with the findings.

Psychoteen101

When you open the throttle its gonna read 0 vacuum, because the engine doesnt produce vacuum under throttle.

andrewk

but if you run a stock ecu with no air/fuel input it's not gonna do it because a stock ecu is that a STOCK mapped ecu for 30+mpgs. but if it's throwing a code even if you know thats not the issue the o2 code will put the ecu in limp mode. clear the code and if it comes back then i'd suggest hookin up a o2 and/or defouler. anybody that diagnoses cars with engine type issues should always check for codes if available computer sees everything you dont.