Uberdata help with a GSR
11-13-2003, 12:16 PM
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Uberdata help with a GSR
Hey guys I need some help setting my fuel low and hi settings and ign hi and lo, everything else I understand, I am going to run a t3/t4 turbo with these specs
57 T COMPRESSOR WHEEL
.50 A/R COMPRESSOR
.63 A/R TURBINE
Also I will have 440cc DSM Injectors, as was wondering what else do I need using uberdata, do I still need the missing link and as well, can anyone help me with the other settings.
I figured 4000RPM was good for throttle launch VTEC X-over @4400RPM and someone told me 120% on fuel average efficiency, and I am thinking 1.0 degree of retard per lb. of boost , does that sound right??? any help would be appreciated thanks guys
57 T COMPRESSOR WHEEL
.50 A/R COMPRESSOR
.63 A/R TURBINE
Also I will have 440cc DSM Injectors, as was wondering what else do I need using uberdata, do I still need the missing link and as well, can anyone help me with the other settings.
I figured 4000RPM was good for throttle launch VTEC X-over @4400RPM and someone told me 120% on fuel average efficiency, and I am thinking 1.0 degree of retard per lb. of boost , does that sound right??? any help would be appreciated thanks guys
11-13-2003, 12:19 PM
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Re: Uberdata help with a GSR (riddickone)
You can ditch the missing link... In fact you HAVE to ditch the missing link.
"Applying" 120% fuel effieciency with populate the "boosted" section of the fuel maps. And 20% more is a good, safe, rich number to start with. 1.0 degree per psi is also a (I would say) a safe baseline.
From there... It's all fine tuning.
"Applying" 120% fuel effieciency with populate the "boosted" section of the fuel maps. And 20% more is a good, safe, rich number to start with. 1.0 degree per psi is also a (I would say) a safe baseline.
From there... It's all fine tuning.
11-13-2003, 12:26 PM
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Re: Uberdata help with a GSR (Mpir3)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mpir3 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">1.0 deg per psi is alot...i would do like .75, it is still safe..</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yea you end up with something like 13* on the top side, EGT's are gonna sky rocket
Yea you end up with something like 13* on the top side, EGT's are gonna sky rocket
11-13-2003, 01:28 PM
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Re: Uberdata help with a GSR (VTC_CiViC)
So by putting my fuel efficiency to 120% it will default and edit setting for the ign and fuel is that correct?? Hate to be stupid but when it comes to that I am thanks for the help guys, also if I run 440 DSM injectors , how in uberdata do I set that up again thanks
11-13-2003, 03:02 PM
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Re: Uberdata help with a GSR (riddickone)
yes, it will set up the fuel tables. when you set it for .75 retard then it will set the ignition tables. to run dsm 450's, you need to highlight the fuel tables and multiply the values by 0.58. also do this to the TPS enrichment thing. this is all in the FAQ!!!
11-13-2003, 03:34 PM
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Re: Uberdata help with a GSR (ndogg)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ndogg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> to run dsm 450's, you need to highlight the fuel tables and multiply the values by 0.58. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Its actually .53 for 450cc injectors...
Rob
Its actually .53 for 450cc injectors...
Rob
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11-13-2003, 08:05 PM
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Re: Uberdata help with a GSR (94goldjungsr)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94goldjungsr »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">its actually going to need to be determined on a dyno. 
</TD></TR></TABLE>
okay how about based on the math it is 53....
Rob
</TD></TR></TABLE>okay how about based on the math it is 53....
Rob
11-13-2003, 08:24 PM
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11-13-2003, 11:23 PM
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Re: Uberdata help with a GSR (rjardy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rjardy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
okay how about based on the math it is 53....
Rob</TD></TR></TABLE>
according to the uberdata faq's, its actually going to be 58
okay how about based on the math it is 53....
Rob</TD></TR></TABLE>
according to the uberdata faq's, its actually going to be 58
11-13-2003, 11:35 PM
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Re: Uberdata help with a GSR (ndogg)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ndogg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
according to the uberdata faq's, its actually going to be 58 </TD></TR></TABLE>
(240/newinjectorsize*100) = 53 +5=58
Oops I forgot to add the 5. Sorry for the misleading info...
but you are right, according to the FAQ its 58.
Rob
according to the uberdata faq's, its actually going to be 58 </TD></TR></TABLE>
(240/newinjectorsize*100) = 53 +5=58
Oops I forgot to add the 5. Sorry for the misleading info...
but you are right, according to the FAQ its 58.
Rob
11-13-2003, 11:41 PM
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read the faq while maken you firs bin.
take a notice on the stuff the guys here on HT told you !!
and it will all go verry nicely. if not come back and ask some more
succes !
take a notice on the stuff the guys here on HT told you !!
and it will all go verry nicely. if not come back and ask some more
succes !
11-14-2003, 06:54 AM
#17
What is this crap?
Re: (J. Davis)
yeah. the 120 effeciency thing...i am assuming its a relatively primitive algorithm, cause i get good a/f around 8psi and too lean around 1-4psi. i am probly going to open my maps in crome cause i can cut and paste them in and out of there to manipulate them better in excel or something.
and since i dont have sufficient datalogging right now, i am really considering going to a dyno to tune...
and since i dont have sufficient datalogging right now, i am really considering going to a dyno to tune...
11-14-2003, 07:06 AM
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Re: Uberdata help with a GSR (Mpir3)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mpir3 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">1.0 deg per psi is alot...i would do like .75, it is still safe..</TD></TR></TABLE>
I think that is too much. EGT's will get high. Mine is at .5 on Hondata.
I think that is too much. EGT's will get high. Mine is at .5 on Hondata.
11-14-2003, 07:29 AM
#19
What is this crap?
Re: Uberdata help with a GSR (ladysman)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ladysman »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I think that is too much. EGT's will get high. Mine is at .5 on Hondata.</TD></TR></TABLE>
people please remember that its the absolute amount of advance you end up with.
not all of us have the same values in the highest non-boost row, which the timing is then calculated from. my map has only 29 degrees of advance, so at 8psi at .5 lbs of boost puts me at 29 - (8x.5) = 25 degrees total advance.
where if you were at 31 in that row, then you'd end up at 31 - (4) = 27.
which is the difference between pinging and not in some cases.
glad you guys are discussing this. my p28 does not have a knock sensor board, and i am fine with that, but i learned that the knock sensor is providing VERY valuable information. when i sampled and plotted it on the AEM EMS, i could see some detonation that i could not hear. i am brainstorming ideas on how to convey this info somehow for tuning.
basically as engine RPM increased, engine noise increased proportionally like this
/
but when there was ping, there would be a spike sticking out of that slope. the sensor i believe is a 0-5V signal where 0v is quiet and 5v is a loud noise. its basically a microphone. i might talk to the DSP guys here and see if there is something we can do ala the J&S safeguard but simpler just to detect knock or somehow display engine noise...hmm...
I think that is too much. EGT's will get high. Mine is at .5 on Hondata.</TD></TR></TABLE>
people please remember that its the absolute amount of advance you end up with.
not all of us have the same values in the highest non-boost row, which the timing is then calculated from. my map has only 29 degrees of advance, so at 8psi at .5 lbs of boost puts me at 29 - (8x.5) = 25 degrees total advance.
where if you were at 31 in that row, then you'd end up at 31 - (4) = 27.
which is the difference between pinging and not in some cases.
glad you guys are discussing this. my p28 does not have a knock sensor board, and i am fine with that, but i learned that the knock sensor is providing VERY valuable information. when i sampled and plotted it on the AEM EMS, i could see some detonation that i could not hear. i am brainstorming ideas on how to convey this info somehow for tuning.
basically as engine RPM increased, engine noise increased proportionally like this
/
but when there was ping, there would be a spike sticking out of that slope. the sensor i believe is a 0-5V signal where 0v is quiet and 5v is a loud noise. its basically a microphone. i might talk to the DSP guys here and see if there is something we can do ala the J&S safeguard but simpler just to detect knock or somehow display engine noise...hmm...
11-14-2003, 09:31 AM
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Re: Uberdata help with a GSR (falconGSR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by falconGSR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
people please remember that its the absolute amount of advance you end up with.
not all of us have the same values in the highest non-boost row, which the timing is then calculated from. my map has only 29 degrees of advance, so at 8psi at .5 lbs of boost puts me at 29 - (8x.5) = 25 degrees total advance.
where if you were at 31 in that row, then you'd end up at 31 - (4) = 27.
which is the difference between pinging and not in some cases.
glad you guys are discussing this. my p28 does not have a knock sensor board, and i am fine with that, but i learned that the knock sensor is providing VERY valuable information. when i sampled and plotted it on the AEM EMS, i could see some detonation that i could not hear. i am brainstorming ideas on how to convey this info somehow for tuning.
basically as engine RPM increased, engine noise increased proportionally like this
/
but when there was ping, there would be a spike sticking out of that slope. the sensor i believe is a 0-5V signal where 0v is quiet and 5v is a loud noise. its basically a microphone. i might talk to the DSP guys here and see if there is something we can do ala the J&S safeguard but simpler just to detect knock or somehow display engine noise...hmm...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I have you seen the saab APC?
people please remember that its the absolute amount of advance you end up with.
not all of us have the same values in the highest non-boost row, which the timing is then calculated from. my map has only 29 degrees of advance, so at 8psi at .5 lbs of boost puts me at 29 - (8x.5) = 25 degrees total advance.
where if you were at 31 in that row, then you'd end up at 31 - (4) = 27.
which is the difference between pinging and not in some cases.
glad you guys are discussing this. my p28 does not have a knock sensor board, and i am fine with that, but i learned that the knock sensor is providing VERY valuable information. when i sampled and plotted it on the AEM EMS, i could see some detonation that i could not hear. i am brainstorming ideas on how to convey this info somehow for tuning.
basically as engine RPM increased, engine noise increased proportionally like this
/
but when there was ping, there would be a spike sticking out of that slope. the sensor i believe is a 0-5V signal where 0v is quiet and 5v is a loud noise. its basically a microphone. i might talk to the DSP guys here and see if there is something we can do ala the J&S safeguard but simpler just to detect knock or somehow display engine noise...hmm...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I have you seen the saab APC?
11-14-2003, 01:27 PM
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Re: Uberdata help with a GSR (falconGSR)
http://hjem.get2net.dk/bengaard/apc-syst.htm
http://web.inter.nl.net/users/...c.htm
http://www.geocities.com/tv41mxa/tweakyourapc.html
http://www.geocities.com/Motor....html
http://www.sacsaabs.org/speed2.htm
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by j.davis »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm a big fan of doing your own homework, and anyone who isn't a tinkerer won't be able to follow me anyway, so here's the quick and dirty rundown:
Netsearch for Saab APC, tweak your APC, and townsend. There is a plethora of information out there on how to modify these things to act as a standalone boost controller for any vehicle. I'd provide links, but I never bookmarked the sites and netsearch anytime I need them - so can you.
The APC will draw off boost under engine knock. It also has provisions for communicating with the Bosch LH-Jetronic ECU to retard ignition under knock - it grounds pin 19 for a minimum of a half second when it detects knock. Whi8ch is a nice way to actuate a pulldown for pin 1 of 27C512, switch to an alternate set of ignition maps if you wanted, hint hint. Or just ground a 12V LED to act as a dashboard mounted knock detector.
The "usual" hacks will render the APC a linear boost controller, meaning it doesn't start tapering down boost after 4800 rpms as it does in stock form. Boost becomes readily adjustable on the P potentiometer... make quick and sleazy with a DVOM and you have the desired resistances to use in place of the P potentiometer for lo/high/multiple switchable boost levels.
A common hobbyist IC is the LM2907/LM2917, which can be used as an RPM activated switch or to render input frequency into a DC voltage. In this case, the higher the freq, or higher the VSS freq I should say, the higher the output DC voltage. A couple of opamps set to trigger at whatever voltage levels would feed the desired resistances across where the P potentiometer used to be, and set your boost level according to vehicle speed.
You can set the above device up with a number of potentiometers, so you can adjust the VSS points and the desired boost for each point. Not super bling, but goddamn you can do it yourself in a couple hours with free samples extorted from all the major IC manufacturers, and you end up knowing more about what you're talking about than the average HT member who is still on the pay-to-play tip.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thanks again J.
http://web.inter.nl.net/users/...c.htm
http://www.geocities.com/tv41mxa/tweakyourapc.html
http://www.geocities.com/Motor....html
http://www.sacsaabs.org/speed2.htm
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by j.davis »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm a big fan of doing your own homework, and anyone who isn't a tinkerer won't be able to follow me anyway, so here's the quick and dirty rundown:
Netsearch for Saab APC, tweak your APC, and townsend. There is a plethora of information out there on how to modify these things to act as a standalone boost controller for any vehicle. I'd provide links, but I never bookmarked the sites and netsearch anytime I need them - so can you.
The APC will draw off boost under engine knock. It also has provisions for communicating with the Bosch LH-Jetronic ECU to retard ignition under knock - it grounds pin 19 for a minimum of a half second when it detects knock. Whi8ch is a nice way to actuate a pulldown for pin 1 of 27C512, switch to an alternate set of ignition maps if you wanted, hint hint. Or just ground a 12V LED to act as a dashboard mounted knock detector.
The "usual" hacks will render the APC a linear boost controller, meaning it doesn't start tapering down boost after 4800 rpms as it does in stock form. Boost becomes readily adjustable on the P potentiometer... make quick and sleazy with a DVOM and you have the desired resistances to use in place of the P potentiometer for lo/high/multiple switchable boost levels.
A common hobbyist IC is the LM2907/LM2917, which can be used as an RPM activated switch or to render input frequency into a DC voltage. In this case, the higher the freq, or higher the VSS freq I should say, the higher the output DC voltage. A couple of opamps set to trigger at whatever voltage levels would feed the desired resistances across where the P potentiometer used to be, and set your boost level according to vehicle speed.
You can set the above device up with a number of potentiometers, so you can adjust the VSS points and the desired boost for each point. Not super bling, but goddamn you can do it yourself in a couple hours with free samples extorted from all the major IC manufacturers, and you end up knowing more about what you're talking about than the average HT member who is still on the pay-to-play tip.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thanks again J.
11-14-2003, 01:54 PM
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Re: Uberdata help with a GSR (slashDEVslashNULL)
Here is an interesting link on DIY Detonation Detection.
11-15-2003, 11:58 AM
#25
What is this crap?
Re: Uberdata help with a GSR (slashDEVslashNULL)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slashDEVslashNULL »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Here is an interesting link on DIY Detonation Detection.</TD></TR></TABLE>
umm..hmm.. well.. on page 2 of that story they talk about listening to the knock sensor directly to hear knock - i am about to go try this! i have an audio preamp circuit and a fm modulator so i shouuld be able to pipe me knock sensor over my stereo :-p
i just need to know which wire the knock sensor signal is on in an obd1 P72 GSR plug. i'll have to crossreference it from my obd2 helms. hmm...excited i am..
umm..hmm.. well.. on page 2 of that story they talk about listening to the knock sensor directly to hear knock - i am about to go try this! i have an audio preamp circuit and a fm modulator so i shouuld be able to pipe me knock sensor over my stereo :-p
i just need to know which wire the knock sensor signal is on in an obd1 P72 GSR plug. i'll have to crossreference it from my obd2 helms. hmm...excited i am..
