Built B16A

<FONT SIZE="5">EDIT... on page 3.. i became a satisfied customer! </FONT>


ok.. first of all, i have a 92 VX.. i ran my custom T25 turbo kit for a few month on nothing more than a missing link, and a FMU.. it ran.. did ok for what it was worth, but i decided to step it up a notch.

i went out, got a P28, ordered a socketing kit.. and chipped my ECU, and preped myself for uberdata. also a secondary precacion, i got my self a PLX M300 wideband. oh yes.. and if that wasn't engough, i invested in a EGT also. so i think i pretty prepared.

well, as you know, what a hunk of **** a D15Z1 VX motor is, and the ECU they run with it.. (5 wire O2) but for conversaion sake, i want to dyno this engine and just see what its really worth.

so i got the P28 in, and wired up a universal 4 wire O2. as soon as i fire it up, idles are alittle higher than normal.. but.. it runs.. runs alot smoother than a modified basemap chipped. but! after a few seconds, after the idles calm down, my PLX is telling me its leaning out.. suddenly goes from 14-15.. then 16.. you get the picture.. and finally max's out at "lean" doesnt' even give me a number, and you can prolly bet its really bucking right? yes.. it is.. sounds sad.

well.. i pull the plug, and look.. BLACK around the base, but completely lean at the tip of the electrode.



now.. when i converted my harness to the P28 and added the 4 wire O2.. i basicly left the wirring harness alone, exept for A6 (o2 heater) and D14 (o2 input).. i cut those at the ECU, and ran my 2 signals.. as for the other 2 wires for the o2, 12V and ground, i tapped into corresponding wires on the ECU.

now.. should i be worried about what wires are still hooked up to the ECU that aren't being used? the other wires the VX P07 would be looking for? the 5 wire O2 isn't hooked up, so i woudlnt' think it would be a probelm.

basicly, i think i need alittle help on finding exactly what pin locations are for the P07 (VX) and compare them to the P28. cuz something just aint right.

god damnit.. ive spent like 800 bucks in the past week.. just to run shitty'er than on the FMU..


Modified by Built B16A at 7:02 PM 12/5/2004


Modified by Built B16A at 7:03 PM 12/5/2004

rioninja

Since your running uberdata, why dont you disable the o2 heater and hook the simulated narrowband output from the wideband directly to pin d14?
Assuming the plx has a simulated output.

Other than that, you may need to find someone with a helms for your car. A pinout comparison is definatly in order.

Built B16A

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rioninja &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why dont you disable the o2 heater and hook the simulated narrowband output from the wideband directly to pin d14?
Assuming the plx has a simulated output. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i didn't think about that.. the PLX does have simulated output, but i only tried it from the narrowband to signal (D14) on the stock P28.. i didn't run a P28 uberdata basemap, and disable the O2 heater.. i'll try that right now though. brb

Built B16A

ok.. O2 heater disabled.. PLX narrowband output onto C14.. SOLID CEL, and at cold idle its surging like a vaccum leak.

with J1 broken (stock P28) it atleast idels, but then start bucking when its leaning out. this is ******* gay!

Built B16A

nobody has any other advise?

DJ_SaNdOz

check all of the soldering points, verify that the narrow band output is working correctly. Then, ensure that you have added enough fuel to the cells on the base map, and make sure that you have retarded timing some as well. It seems that your cold start up functions are fine.

If that doesn't work:
http://www.pgmfi.org
http://www.ecimulti.org/uberdata/forum

Built B16A

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DJ_SaNdOz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If that doesn't work:
http://www.pgmfi.org
http://www.ecimulti.org/uberdata/forum</TD></TR></TABLE>

uberdata forums are wack! ive asked a bunch of questions, and for 1, harldley anyone vists that board, 2nd of all, most of the people that are members, dont' have time, or are too busy to deal with your meaningless problem.

ok.. well, i ran my chipped P28 in another 92 Si.. it ran fine.. and i used his stock P28 in my hatch, and it still ran like ****.. so it has to do with my wirring.. and i have a feeling, my hatch. so i might think about getting a Y6 longblock with wirring harrness.. i think its my only other option.

rioninja

Im sure somebody on here has a helms for the vx so you can check your wiring..
Getting a z6 engine harness still may not fix your problem, since the wiring differences may start at the ecu. Hopefully someone someone in the know will see your thread. I would suggest searching around the hybrid forum, since this info will most likely be there somewhere. Too bad the search doesnt feed 2 letter words like vx.

campthen

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">god damnit.. ive spent like 800 bucks in the past week.. just to run shitty'er than on the FMU.. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Go back to the FMU then.

And your wiring harness is def. fucked up if you disconnect D14 and tap it in with your grey narrowband wire and it goes crazy. All that wire does is send a 0-1V signal. Nothing that should remotely throw a CEL.

This seems like a wiring problem more than anything else. Go download one of the shop manuals found on various sites and find your pinout. last time i checked http://www.homemadeturbo.com had links to all the shop manuals.

jfoster

iTrader: (1)

http://www.troublecodes.net might have some wiring info for you.....we found the pin diagrams for my buddys DSM on there...

Built B16A

thanks for the advise fella's..

through research.. ive found out in VX's.. if you swap a Z6, or a B series, and use a USDM engine harness, you only have to re-pin 1 wire on the shock tower, and it works everthing out... but that bothers me, since i have a EGR, and a few other things, that im sure the P07 ECU wants to see? so damn..

i think i could work this out if i had the VX P07 ECU pin outs.. damn.. i don't know what to do.

slowpokesi

did you check the links that other people posted? what year civic are we talking about, i might have the manual

i dont know what engine you have, i dont know what the engine code is on the vx.

here is the manual for 92*95 civic, the wiring info is in there, good luck

http://texas.clubsi.com/brando...c.zip


Modified by slowpokesi at 5:45 PM 11/7/2004

Built B16A

i have a 92 VX. D15Z1 W/ P07.

basicly i want to convert my Z1 to Si Z6 specs.. but i have a EGR and a few other things, along with a 5 wire O2 that the P28 doesn't require. i need to know the differances between my Z1 and the Z6. P07 - P28.

slowpokesi

read the manual that i posted, thats pretty much all i can help you with.

Built B16A

i downloaded that .zip file, and when i went to extract.. files were corrupted. ???

sporkcrx

Bump for a big clusterfuck

TrueNorthStar

do you have datalogging hooked up on your p28?

Built B16A

nope.. i haven't a clue how to start data loggin either.. its strange.. it bucks and sounds like **** warming up.. if you give it gas (like to knock it off cold idle) it start to surge.. and it seams like after the WB warms up.. it starts going really lean.. and the tip of the plug is evident.

i think my next step is getting a Z6 wirring harness, and just changing the 1 wire near the shock tower like done in B series swaps.

!

slowpokesi

i would redownload the manual i have tried it on 2 diffrent computers, no errors, maybe your connection fucked up the file in transfer.

Built B16A

ok... now after reffering to this ECU pinout chart for a OBD1 P28..


OBD1 ECU pinout thread... https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=478377

ive downloaded a adobe 92-95 manual and came with this conclusion.

5 wire LAF O2 sensor

D14
D16
D8 all belong to the VX 5 wire O2.
D3 (although on a P28 knock sensor is listed for D3.)
D22(ground)

also

EGR

A11 EGR control soliniod valve
D12 EGR valve lift sensor


---------------------------------

so other than the 5 wire O2.. and the EGR everything else is the same..

would it be worth my while to number and label those EGR and 5 wire O2 wires, and cut them off, and rewire the knock sensor, and give that a shot?

disable the EGR, and 5 wire O2.. run seperate harness like i did for the 4 wire O2, and rewire the knock.

also on a side note.. even though the P28 ran.. very shitty.. but once it warmed up.. ive heard rummors that the VX injectors are 180-190CC's instead of the common 240CC's in most honda's.. you think this smaller value injector will reflect that much on the wideband to run "lean" all the time? under throttle it would show 14/15 stoich at 2K.. just not at idle.

DaX

iTrader: (1)

The 92 VX and 92 SI Hatch injectors ARE different part numbers...don't know if that helps.

The 5-wire sensor on the VX actually has 7 wires running to the ECU. The convention I'm using is ECU PINOUT - MAIN WIRE HARNESS COLOR - ENGINE WIRE HARNESS COLOR. From HELM:

A6 - ORN/BLK - YEL/BLK
A23 - BLK - BLK
D22 - GRN/WHT - GRN/WHT
D3 - BLU/YEL - WHT
D8 - WHT/BLU - WHT/BLU
D14 - ORN/BLU - ORN/BLU
D16 - BLU/GRN - ORN

On my setup, I don't have any o2 Heaters disabled or any of that stuff. I have the wires not being used by the 4 wire sensor just swinging in the wind up in my engine bay...they run all the way to the ECU and I have no problems or CEL's. Double check how you wired in your sensor...go to the H-T Knowledge Base and search for 'oxygen sensor'...my writeup is there.

You weren't getting any CEL's but you were leaning out? I would try swapping in some known 240cc injectors, or you could adjust your injector multiplier [if uberdata will allow that].

phatrick2332

Are you running stock injectors and expecting uberdata to make those run with boost? If you are, you need some real injectors.

keebler65

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by phatrick2332 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Are you running stock injectors and expecting uberdata to make those run with boost? If you are, you need some real injectors.</TD></TR></TABLE>

regardless, he is having problems making it idle. i think boost is the least of his concerns right now.

edit: although i guess if he cut the duty cycle for the whole map, it would run lean on the stock injectors

Built B16A

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DaX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You weren't getting any CEL's but you were leaning out? I would try swapping in some known 240cc injectors, or you could adjust your injector multiplier [if uberdata will allow that].</TD></TR></TABLE>

i think this might be my ticket.. you really think if the VX injecotrs are 180-90CC's it would really make that P28 in my 1.5 run like crap huh?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by keebler65 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">regardless, he is having problems making it idle. i think boost is the least of his concerns right now.</TD></TR></TABLE>

exactly.. my main goal is to get this Z1 to run stock on a P28.. i have yet to achieve that.

Built B16A

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Built B16A &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i think this might be my ticket.. you really think if the VX injecotrs are 180-90CC's it would really make that P28 in my 1.5 run like crap huh?</TD></TR></TABLE>
another thing, while in cold idle, if you give it gas, the throttle will start to surge.. like a vaccumm leak.. im wondering if this has something to do with that? damn.. i want it to just fix itself.