but wouldnt the wastegate have to work harder to keep the spring extended? isnt it harder on the wastegate to constatnly have its spring compressed?

 

not really

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by aaro890 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">but wouldnt the wastegate have to work harder to keep the spring extended? isnt it harder on the wastegate to constatnly have its spring compressed?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Nah. It was designed for that purpose. That would be like buying a tire for your car and only being able to drive on the car for 10 miles and then having to jack the car up to take the weight off of the car.

It's meant to be opened and closed repeatedly. I've had mine (turbo/WG) for nearly 6 months and I have no problems, and I have no idea as to how many thousands of miles were put on it by the previous owner.

 

considering the intercooler piping, is it worth it to pay upwards of $200 for some pipes already made, or is it easier and cheaper to get it made or buy a set of bends or something like that? it just seems crazy to me that i can get an intercooler for 180 and the piping would be more. how did you guys do your piping and how much did it cost you?

 

**** my piping is autozone/pep-boys exhaust tubing welded or coupled together.

Didn't take long to fab everything up and it was fun to do everything from the ground up.

Just make sure your have a cutting wheel or bandsaw to cut everything. I couldn't imaging cutting everything with a hacksaw.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by aaro890 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">considering the intercooler piping, is it worth it to pay upwards of $200 for some pipes already made, or is it easier and cheaper to get it made or buy a set of bends or something like that? it just seems crazy to me that i can get an intercooler for 180 and the piping would be more. how did you guys do your piping and how much did it cost you?</TD></TR></TABLE>

personally i would get one of the premade kits just because they you have as few couplers as possible, most of the come bead rolled as well. Chances are they will fit better too...

 

what advantage does the bead rolling have?

 

less chance of the blowing a coupler off the end of the pipe, its a little lip

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by aaro890 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wow thanks a lot for the help.

so a 50 trim t3/t4 turbo with .63 a/r ? what does this mean? i do want fast spool.

thanks for the info</TD></TR></TABLE> ????

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jononioo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> ????</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hahaha, my bad guys...here goes:
A/R (turbine) is a ratio: a measurement between the cross sectional Area of the turbine at a given point from the inlet to the center of the wheel (Radius). This ratio remains constant as you move closer to the turbine wheel. This ratio is a rated volumetric efficiency of the turbo. A 0.63 A/R or 0.63 area per radius has the same radius as a 0.82 A/R...the only thing that changes is the area...the latter is bigger. This will always be true, the radius remains the same, it's just the area that changes. The bigger the air, the more volumetric efficient the turbo will have...

Now, the exhaust gas that comes through the turbo manifold spins the turbine wheel (notice how you bolt it up when you install it: think about where the air is gonna go) which in turns, spin the compressor wheel. The thing is, if you have a small area per radius ratio (A/R), it will not take much effort to spin the wheel...as when you compare it to one of higher area...higher A/R. This means that the higher the A/R, more exhaust gases are required to spin the turbine wheel (which runs through the same shaft wheel as the compressor) and the compressor wheel will take just as long to spin. This will result in a LONGER SPOOL TIME. This will provide a higher power band (should your engine be able to handle it)

In a nutshell:
Higher turbine A/R: For high end torque, higher max hp
Lower turbine A/R: For low end torque, lower max hp



TRIM, on the otherhand basically is an area ratio of the compressor/turbine wheel.

Compressor Trim = 100*[(inducer diameter / exducer diameter)^2]
Inducer = air coming in
Exducer = air leaving

This is basically a measurement of the minor and major diameters for the compressor and the turbine. The 'trim' term you hear a lot often refers to the compressor and not the turbine. So for the turbine trim, the equation will be a bit different.



In a nutshell, without getting into details too much because I'm getting tired of writing at this moment:

For the compressor:
The Larger the inducer = more airflow, more lag, high max hp. Surge is more likely to occur if the large inducer's size comes close to its exducer counterpart.
The Larger the exducer = spool up time decreases, max flow rate is slightly increased

With all other factors held constant, a higher trim wheel will flow more than a smaller trim wheel...but this isn't so, as all things are hardly ever held constant... you have many other things to consider like A/R, housing, etc...so you can't say a 57 trim flows better than a 50 trim, it all depends on the turbo, the manufacturer, etc...however, this DOES give us a good idea of what to think about...

I write too much, but I hope this makes sense. Post up if you have questions, or if I said somethin misleading.

Oh, and those pics aren't mine by the way, I got it online, I think turbobygarrett.com or something. Props to them


Modified by rsintegra at 4:46 PM 2/6/2006

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by haveaniceday &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i thought if you had a 7psi spring, you cant run no lower than that .. only go higher .. </TD></TR></TABLE>

This is correct, if you have a 7 psi spring, you can only boost 7 psi max. The reason for this is, the wastegate dumps out whatever ADDITIONAL boost beyond 7 psi that your engine/turbo may accumulate.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Soccerking3000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">we are talking about flow here though. The wastegate has to flow more exhaust so the turbine of the turbo doesnt boost more. If you run higher psi then you are letting more exhaust through the turbine so not as much needs to run out the wastegate. Make sense? So when running low psi you need a large wastegate to flow more exhaust otherwise you'll get boost creep.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's right!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Soccerking3000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">we are talking about flow here though. The wastegate has to flow more exhaust so the turbine of the turbo doesnt boost more. If you run higher psi then you are letting more exhaust through the turbine so not as much needs to run out the wastegate. Make sense? So when running low psi you need a large wastegate to flow more exhaust otherwise you'll get boost creep.</TD></TR></TABLE>


now i understand

 

Wow. I've read those posts in the stickies about reading compressor trims and **** and could never figure it out. Thanks for breaking it down into dummy-talk

Now I need to figure out how exactly to read a compressor map. Or at least find out the flow rate of my D16Z6.

 

just get a used turbo kit on here and spend your money on tunning

 

Thanks for the breakdown. so the lower the trim, the faster the spool, higher torquw, less peak hp?

also, would i really need to spend all the extra money for a larger wastegate, or is 38mm plenty big?

thanks again

 

a 38mm is fine for you, its fine for 99% of the people out there lol, as for the turbo question, in general yea but there are too many variables in an engine and between engines to say things like that definitely, you know?

 

What do you guys think of this ebay special *not SSAC*
it looks like agood deal to me
also, will an 8" intercooler fit with no cutting on my integra?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...QrdZ1


Modified by aaro890 at 7:46 PM 2/7/2006

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Soccerking3000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">a 38mm is fine for you, its fine for 99% of the people out there lol, as for the turbo question, in general yea but there are too many variables in an engine and between engines to say things like that definitely, you know?</TD></TR></TABLE>

A 38mm can go a loooong way. I'm using a Tial now and it's leak-free, virtually no spikes.

Hmmm, I'm not sure about the ebay kit...it looks alright though...just missing the fuel parts.

Let's see, if you were to build your own turbo kit of the similar specs:

Turbo - $400
Turbo Manifold - $400
Injectors - $50 for DSM, roughly $200 for name brand
Fuel pump - $90
Oil line kit - $100
Pipes - $250
IC - $300
Downpipe - $250
Wastegate - $200
Blow off valve - $200
Vacuum lines, fasteners, gaskets, spark plugs - $50
Oil, Radiator fluid, oil pan gasket - $50
Am I missing anything?

Although the ebay kit may appear cheap, I just made a rough sketch of a turbo kit for roughly $2000. I was generous with the pricing on some of it too. I'm positive that you can get cheaper prices if you look...I've seen some turbos being sold for 250-300, and same with the manifold. You can get a cheap JRC intercoolr for about 200 dollars...etc...So if you follow this route, you'd be happy to piece together the different parts you like for roughly the same amount of price, but quality parts since you picked them out yourself...keep in mind that the ebay kit does not come with injectors and a fuel pump, or the oil, oil pan gasket, radiator fluid, etc. But in any case, either method is fine I guess...

 

buy my kit, everything u need + extras!

bolts onto 94+LS

 

i would piece together a kit as well so you get exactly what you want, if you really wanted you could piec one together for around 1000 and use the extra chas for a nice tune/fuel management

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Soccerking3000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i would piece together a kit as well so you get exactly what you want, if you really wanted you could piec one together for around 1000 and use the extra chas for a nice tune/fuel management </TD></TR></TABLE>



Yup, and if the parts are crappy, just make sure it's in working order, and spend good money on the TUNE!! or find somebody...

 

Yeah i was planning on peicing together my own kit, but it just seemd like an alright deal.
Where can you get a turbo for 400? the cheapest i could find was 525. i assume its used? How safe are these?
also how tall of an intercooler can i get that will fit with no cutting?

 

you can get BRAND NEW turbos from the sponsors section for 550 shipped

 

oh yes i know...thats where i found the one for 525, but the 400 dollar one i assume is used.

 

yea you can get some nice used turbos fresh off a rebuild