Pickup up my new car last nite. B18C motor with Darton Sleeves, 84.5 mm Wiseco Rollerwave pistons 9.3:1 comp., Crower rods, b16 sir2 head with crower valvetrain and civic type r cams. Drag 3 kit with Garrett Super 50 turbo. 550cc injectors, Hondata s200. Car was running 12 psi with a/f ratios stable at 11.1:1. Opened the car up in fourth gear and shifted to fifth. Car laid down and the rpms stuck at 5000. Got off of it and lots of black smoke. Limped the car back to my house 1 mile away. Oil temp went up and pressure down. Since it was late i left it alone. The next morning checked the coolant (it was perfect), oil ( 1 qt low), no leaks of any sort. The car started up and there was a lot of smoke coming out of the crankcase breather and exhaust.
Ran a compression test.
Here are the results
number 1 200psi
number 2 190psi
number 3 50 psi
number 4 0 psi
Yes that is correct 0 psi.
One reliable source said I might have burnt some exhaust valves detonating.
There was a trace of oil in #3, more oil in #4.
Suggestions.
Don't state the obvious.

 

I am not really sure what you are asking for. Your compression test really tells the whole story. What is it you are asking?
You are obviously going to need a rebuild. 11.1 A/F ratios are pretty dangerous (most folks run about 14 range in boost, 12 out of boost) for safety reasons.
50 PSI - ouch - broke ring lands?
0 PSI - wow... For that kind of reading, you have missing/hole ridden parts. With the rings gone, you will generally get more than 0 on a compression test.. unless it has been ran for some time with the rings gone, and the piston has been bouncing about in the cylinders like some kind of crazy ping pong ball.
Pull the head, see what is going on.. and post some pics while you are at it!

Best of luck in your endeavors!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B94Cast &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am not really sure what you are asking for. Your compression test really tells the whole story. What is it you are asking?
You are obviously going to need a rebuild. 11.1 A/F ratios are pretty dangerous (most folks run about 14 range in boost, 12 out of boost) for safety reasons.
50 PSI - ouch - broke ring lands?
0 PSI - wow... For that kind of reading, you have missing/hole ridden parts. With the rings gone, you will generally get more than 0 on a compression test.. unless it has been ran for some time with the rings gone, and the piston has been bouncing about in the cylinders like some kind of crazy ping pong ball.
Pull the head, see what is going on.. and post some pics while you are at it!

Best of luck in your endeavors!</TD></TR></TABLE>


ARE U RETARDED?
most people run like 12.0-12.5 in boost and 14's out of boost to save mileage.
11's A/F is more than safe and well on the rich side.
when my block blew i had like 135 compression in cyl 3, leakdown was like %40, was hoping for the best hoping it was a valve or something stupid. no luck, but pulled the head and found out cyl 3 was melted, and the rest were a little melted on the valve reliefs ont he intake side a little. detonated pretty bad becuas ei melted forged JE's

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itr206 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


ARE U RETARDED?
most people run like 12.0-12.5 in boost and 14's out of boost to save mileage.
11's A/F is more than safe and well on the rich side.
when my block blew i had like 135 compression in cyl 3, leakdown was like %40, was hoping for the best hoping it was a valve or something stupid. no luck, but pulled the head and found out cyl 3 was melted, and the rest were a little melted on the valve reliefs ont he intake side a little. detonated pretty bad becuas ei melted forged JE's </TD></TR></TABLE>

Reversed my numbers, what I meant was 12 boost 14 out... so no, not retarded... at least last I checked... Things change however.
What I was talking about with the 11 range, is being that rich could cause other problems outside of detonating. Being too rich brings different problems from being too lean. Either one is bad.

At any rate, personal attacks aside (which is not part of why we are here), you indicate that you had 135 compression with a melted piston? My point was that with 0 compression on a cylinder, there are massive problems. Pulling the head and examining what is wrong is the next step.

 

what can happen if your TOO rich as you put it???

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted_dc2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what can happen if your TOO rich as you put it???</TD></TR></TABLE>

egts are lower and you wont detonate as easily, given your ignition timing is correct.


Modified by tegasaurus at 8:46 PM 11/11/2003

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted_dc2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what can happen if your TOO rich as you put it???</TD></TR></TABLE>

You could foul your plugs, wash out the rings, cause post cylinder combustion (heat would dramatically increase on the exhaust valves and turbo), carbon build up (which turns into hot spots, and can cause detonation), cat dies young, O2 senosr dies young, blow by, and more.

this post https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=304441 is a good one that covers much more than I can.

 

hey hey lets focus here....

Sorry man, you FUCKED your **** up. No way anything good is going to be found when you pull that head... as unfortunate as it is

I love b18c's... why is it everyone who builds them is having so much trouble lately!!?

 

too rich egts can go up but 11:1 isnt too rich.

also, even at 11:1 you can detonate if the timing map is poorly done. Also was it perfectly 11:1 the whole way across? A lot of times if its not tuned right it will lean out from like 5-7 and then richen up from 7k on with hondata's lack of adjustability. Anyway.. sounds like your motor is in bad shape, try putting some oil in the cylinder and checking compression again. How does it sound when it runs? You could have cracked a sleeve...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94goldjungsr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">too rich egts can go up but 11:1 isnt too rich.</TD></TR></TABLE>

What would be considered too rich then? I made the (incorrect?) assumption, that as stoich is 14.7, that 11 would be too rich. 10? 9?

 

Yea 9 or 10 is pretty rich. 11 isnt bad at all if safety is a big concern.

14.7 may be stoic but we aren tuning in the real world, not in simple theory.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B94Cast &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

What would be considered too rich then? I made the (incorrect?) assumption, that as stoich is 14.7, that 11 would be too rich. 10? 9?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

lol, 14.7 is stoich on a n/a motor... you know, the ones those riceboys have - the ones who's mods list consist of i/h/e lolz

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94goldjungsr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yea 9 or 10 is pretty rich. 11 isnt bad at all if safety is a big concern.

14.7 may be stoic but we aren tuning in the real world, not in simple theory.</TD></TR></TABLE>

So all else said, 11 would not be too rich? I thought 12 was the lowest that you really wanted to go, after that too rich symptoms started to appear.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B94Cast &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

So all else said, 11 would not be too rich? I thought 12 was the lowest that you really wanted to go, after that too rich symptoms started to appear.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

mid 12 is the highest you want.. 10.5 or there abouts is the lowest

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tegasaurus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

lol, 14.7 is stoich on a n/a motor... you know, the ones those riceboys have - the ones who's mods list consist of i/h/e lolz </TD></TR></TABLE>

I know the difference between Ideal and reality. Tune for absolute and anything that goes wrong results in bad news for your motor. As I stated earlier (which itr206 corrected me on) I am not stating to tune for that.
Thanks for all of the info everyone! I started out trying to help, and have received help in the return.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B94Cast &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

So all else said, 11 would not be too rich? I thought 12 was the lowest that you really wanted to go, after that too rich symptoms started to appear.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

below 11 a lot of times the car will start to bog if there isnt enough timing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tegasaurus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

mid 12 is the highest you want.. 10.5 or there abouts is the lowest</TD></TR></TABLE>

Even in the NA range?

 

Damn that must really suck, You jus picked this car up and you blew the motor?

 

you did break in the motor even?