mugenracer

I'm asking on behalf of a friend who's doing this project. Hes got a JDM B18C that he's dropping into a EK VTi (UK car) He has JE 9.1 pistons and is using a garret T3 stage 1 turbo from a 2WD cosworth. Once the engine is built it'll be set up on a rolling road and the mapping will be done using a Dastek Uni-chip or a complete stand alone ECU if it wont run properly on the uni-chip. Hes asked me to try and get him a 3 bar map sensor (he doesnt have internet) From reading through previous threads it seems a GM 3 bar map sensor is used quite commonly. Is there any issues using the GM unit with on the b18C and does he need anything else along with the GM sensor (ie will it plug straight into the existing map sensor socket?) I know absolutel squat about boosted engines so i'm possibly not the right person for him to be asking but i told him i'd find out what i can. Another question i have is, can he use a stock head gasket with the 9.1 pistons or does it need to be uprated/thicker/thinner? Also i havent asked him nor has he said anything about the injectors, can he run that boost on stock B18C injectors or do they need to be uprated also. Sorry for all the questions.

One last thing, if the GM 3bar sensor is ok to use, does anyone have one for sale or could someone get one for me and i'll paypal them the money (I live in ireland and none of our GM cars use that sensor according to my local opel dealer)

Mark_DC2_NZ

Upgrade the injectors, i would go with 440 cc injectors or there abouts

jdm_boost

First, I have a few questions. Are the rods stock? If so, don't waste your money on the GM map sensor because you won't be able to run much more than 300 hp @ the wheels w/o eventually breaking them. Not right away but they will break (trust me). Also, how much horsepower can your turbo flow? I'm guessing around 300-330 @ the wheels. Are you planning on getting an intercooler? If not you won't be able to boost safely over 5-6 psi. Are the JE pistons 81.5mm? If not return or sell them. Stock b18c bore is 81mm and whenever you replace pistons you want the new ones matched to the block. The only way to do that is to bore the cylinders out to the diameter of the pistons. Don't go any bigger than 81.5 because you want the thickest cylinder possible to withstand the boost you're gonna run. As far as engine management go with Hondata S200. Several reasons, it's cheap ($500 for basic setup w/ boost capability), it will save you money on tuning because you can get base maps for your setup and it lets the stock computer control all the other stuff not related to power like idle, etc. It basically takes your stock program and tweaks it with the more capabilities such as seeing boost, idlling huge injectors, etc.. Unlike other systems, you dont have to spend hours getting idle right and part throttle/cruising a/f ratios right (which costs hundreds). If you're gonna run more than 10 psi then definitely upgrade the map sensor. The stock head gasket is fine but I would strongly recommend using ARP head studs because the stock ones tend stretch, letting coolant in the combustion chamber and blowing the gasket, melting a hole in the piston of the leaking cylinder which puts chunks of metal in your oil pump and ruins it as well other bad stuff. Yes all of this happened to me running a b16 t3/t4 setup. I ended up having to resleeve my block, replace pistons, rings, rods, bearings, head gasket, and oil pump. But enough about me. If you've got the money go with a gasket from cometic or similar. It's $100 and extra insurance. The stock injectors will be fine to about 240 hp. I agree with Mark's advice in using the 440's. They'll be plenty for your turbo. I don't know how much your budget is, but I'd get rods from Eagle (cheap and strong) and the Hondata first (and the cometic gasket if money is left over). Then invest some time on the dyno tuning on stock injectors. Then when you put the bigger injectors on it will be easier to tune with them. If funds are available doing it all at once might save you some time on the dyno if the tuner knows what he's doing. Let me know if you have any more questions about anything.

mugenracer

the pistons are 81mm so theyre ok for the B18C engine. I dont think he had any plans on uprating the rods, he doesnt want to go over 10psi max, but will possibly end up running 8 or 9 psi. Unfortunately we have no hondata agent over here yet (europe) so thats not an option. Maximum power to the wheels wont be anywhere near 300, mor like 230/240bhp so the stock injectors and headgasket should be ok? he's getting a front mounted opposite ends entry/exit intercooler. the turbo is from a ford sierra cosworth (2WD) so i'd say maximum h/p for it would be in or around 280-300bhp possibly slightly less. He has APR head bolts so no worries there. Is there anything else he should look out for or get before bolting it all together and getting it set up?

What he really needs to know is if he stays at 10psi or slightly below will the stock map sensor hold up, or should he get an uprated 2 or 3 bar sensor?

Mark_DC2_NZ

I reccomend you do everything the first time round, put the 440cc in with the hondata and get it dyno tuned, it will save you money in the long run.

From what i have heard, the b18c injectors run near to their max from the factory, it would be wise to upgrade considering the low price of injectors.

mugenracer

can anyone tell me if an uprated 2 or 3 bar map sensor is needed if not boosting above 10psi? And if one is needed which is the best one to go for?

DaX

iTrader: (1)

Stock Honda MAP is good for 10.65-11 psi with Hondata, then you should upgrade to a GM 3 bar MAP after that.

drvfast

I would strongly recommend using ARP head studs because the stock ones tend stretch, letting coolant in the combustion chamber and blowing the gasket.


Keep the stock head studs in they will be fine the only time i recommend puting the arp head studs in only if you are doing a head gasket change.

mugenracer

does the head need to come off to drop in the new pistons..if so then i'm sure he will be getting a new head gasket, he already has new headbolts, i thought he had got APR ones but he tells me they are cosworth bolts (who apparently make JUN headbolts) so they should be up to the job!

jdm_boost

Since you're not boosting over 10 psi stick with the original map sensor. Also, since there isn't a hondata dealer i would suggest going with a piggyback system. I recommend the apexi v-afc. if you don't have an apex dealer go to optauto.com to have one shipped. it costs about $350 and is very easy to tune especially for a shop that knows what they're doing and comes with complete instructions on how to tune. Since the stock honda ecu isn't set up for turbocharging, you have to make sure the map sensor sees no boost. There are two ways of doing this depending on engine and car. The map sensor is either located on the firewall next to the fuel filter and has a vacuum hose leading to the top of the throttle body or the map sensor is mounted directly on top of the throttle body. If it's on the firewall then you can go to the pet store in the aquarium section and get 3 or 4 check valves and hose tees (it usually only takes 3 and make sure you get unfiltered valves). They only cost a couple dollars each and they really work ( i used them before i got hondata and dynoed @ 238 to the wheels with stock injectors). Just cut the vacuum hose leading to the map sensor and install one of the tees. Then cut the hose hose again a little further down and install another tee, and the same for the other. Then you have to put about an inch of hose on each tee so you can connect the check valve and zip tie every connection. What the check valves do is stay closed until you start boosting. Once there's any pressure in the line the check valves vent it into the air. It's the same function of a blowoff valve but for your map sensor instead of your turbo. If your map sensor mounts directly on the throttle body then you'll have to buy a missing link. it does the same thing as the check valves but costs $75 instead of $10. since your car is an ek model you'll probably have to get a missing link unless the b18c is an earlier model. then you have 2 options: 1) switch to a newer b series throttle body (about $400) or 2) go to a salvage yard and get a map sensor from any '95 honda/acura or older, replace your old one with the "new" one, run the vacuum line to the front hose bib on top of the throttle body and use the check valves (about $30-50). You can run even higher than 10 psi if you want because the map sensor never sees boost (if you do i recommend adding a 4th check valve). if the sensor is mounted on the throttle body i have a missing link that fits any b-series throttle body for $20. i dont need it now that i have hondata. afterwards if you want more horsepower (it happens to the best of us) you can upgrade to bigger injectors like 300cc (no bigger than 330 or you'll have idling troubles) and you should be in the high 200's maybe 300hp range. just remember don't go too crazy with the boost, it's addictive. Some advice on the engine build, find out if those pistons are overbore or not. Believe me you want pistons bigger than 81mm. Not much, we're talking 1/6 to 1/2mm. This is because as the cylinders heat and cool over & over from driving they warp slightly (100th's of a mm). This is tolerable for a stock motor but when ever you rebuild a motor stock or not you ALWAYS go with overbore pistons and hone the cylinders. Otherwise you'll have fitment and ring seal problems. What you want to do is find a reputable machine shop and give them your block, main caps & bolts, rods, pistons, crank, crank pulley (along with the key to hold it in place ((the little metal rectangle))), and flywheel (and bolts) along with clearance specs of your pistons (in the box they came in). You want them to match hone your cylinders to each individual piston and number them off for you so you know the order to put them in. Then you want them to take the block and (installed) main caps and align hone where the crank sits to make sure that's straight as well and give you a set of main bearings to match. Then have them micropolish the rod journals on the crank and get a set of bearings to match for them as well (keep one of the old rod bearings, there should be a color code on it for reference). After all that's done have them balance the entire rotating assembly (that's where the crank pulley and flywheel come in). If the shop tells you they don't need the pulley & flywheel, find another shop because most likely they won't use them & say they did just to make you happy. Also have them deck both the head and the block for the best head gasket seal. This will bump your compression up a bit ( anywhere from .1-.3 depending on how much they cut) but with your planned boost/horspower goals & 9:1 pistons a small increase will be good.This entire process should take 1-4 days & cost $350-500 including all bearings depending on the machine shop & how busy they are. Trust me if talk to a well known shop that's serious they'll tell you exactly the same. your motor will last longer and put out more horsepower if all of this is done correctly. if you just slap pistons in and call it a day sooner or later you'll have problems. Also while you have everything apart, now's the time for preventative maintanance. replace your oil pump, clean out the pickup, replace your water pump, timing belt, and crank seals. It's a LOT easier to do while the engine is out of the car & it gives you peace of mind that your entire bottom end is brand new a you won't have any problems that could ruin your motor (like a failed water/oil pump). Also make sure to replace your clutch AND your master cylinder. I recommend Clutchmasters or ACT stage 2 or 3. If you don't replace your master cylinder as well it WILL bypass on you either immediately or within a day or two of driving. I've seen it happen on just about every one that comes in for clutch replacement and i work at a shop so that's a LOT of hondas. If you don't replace the clutch with the turbo install it WILL go out on you as well. Stock honda clutches suck even for stock motors. Well i'm exhausted after typing this 10-page essay of a reply. If you have any more questions about the motor or turbo setup let me know.

mugenracer

Thank you for taking the time to explain everything in such detail...i will print out your reply and give it to my friend thats doing the project.
The engine is a JDM B18C from a 95 car (OBD1) so thats a plus. Over here you can put any age engine in any age car, older or newer it dont make a difference.
He has some uprated clutch to put in, but i'm not sure on which one. Oil/water pump will be replaced along with a timing belt and complete head set of seals/gaskets etc etc.
He said he definitely doesnt plan on going above 10psi so we'll go with the stock sensor (mounted on the inlet manifold)
The ECU mapping will be done using a piggyback Dastek uni-chip and the tuning shop said that if they cant get it to run on the uni-chip then they are dealers for apexi and will use a powerFC for the mapping. Thanks again!!!

R6Boy69

break that thing up into paragraphs pleez... its impossible to read

jdm_boost

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by crXBoy69 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
break that thing up into paragraphs pleez... its impossible to read </TD></TR></TABLE>

I'll be sure to do that next time.