didder

got a few issues on my newly tuned built d16. and a few of my own solutions after some research.

issue 1:
made 285whp all she would make (300ish on a dynojet)... kinda upset about this after 10k of motor / turbo cash, was shooting for more around 330+ with my 9:1 pistons, eagle, rods, fully built and machined head, 50 trim 63 a/r t3/t04e bb turbo etc... car made power to 15 psi, then made less power with 16, 17, 18, etc..

what i think is holding me back maybe-
1.) ebay distributor not putting out enough juice to keep the sparks from blowing out.
2.) i am running about 5" of my old aem cai for my air filter pickup, its only 2.5", and then the old aem air filter, maybe its choking the setup somehow?
3.) on dyno day i had 5 gallons of 4 month old 87 octane gas, we couldnt find a way to get the crap out so i just added 6 gallons of 109 octane unleaded to make up the difference, could the gas just be crap??? (i got straight fresh 92 now its all we got 'round here, and i run an octane booster at every fillup just for re-assurance)

issue 2 not as bad but i just want to figure it out:
when at full throttle im running at 10 on my aem a/f gauge?

problems may include
1.) i run a apexi ws2 exhaust (restrictive as hell with boost), and i tuned with my e-cutout open and thats 2.5" downpipe, could the car be running rich just because it thinks its making more power than it really is??
2.) i removed the thermostat to push coolant through my car cold at idle to check for a leak (which i found ), is the thermo somehow hooked to the ecu and my car thinks its still in cold mode?
3.) did i just get a bad tune? i highly doubt this because LJ is super reputable around MN, my car got off his dyno and he slapped on a stock bottom end supra to 685rwhp, kinda made me jealous lol.

issue 3:
my car has MAJOR turbo lag between shifts, its like 2 seconds of bog how is this possible with a bb 50 trim turbo???? not to mention i dont hit the start of my power curve until around 4600, on a 50 bb trim? is that normal?

maybe its-
1.) i dont have any idea besides my 2" charge piping going from teh turbo to the hot side of intercooler...
2.) maybe my air filter setup?

those are my problems, those are what i think could be causing them? any help would be freakin awesome because my car is my dd'er and i really dont want something little to become something big

thanks tech's

-didder

Modified by didder at 6:23 PM 9/18/2008


Modified by didder at 6:24 PM 9/18/2008

didder

any help?

Civicman86

1.) ebay distributor not putting out enough juice to keep the sparks from blowing out.

<FONT COLOR="red"> Probally correct even if its not the problem. Although you can find deals on ebay, anymore most of the stuff on their is junk (unless its a known brand).</FONT>

2.) i am running about 5" of my old aem cai for my air filter pickup, its only 2.5", and then the old aem air filter, maybe its choking the setup somehow?

<FONT COLOR="red">I don't think this is causing to much of a problem. The air filter may need to be cleaned. If I'm remembering correctly, AEM used K&N filters. If so go to pep boys or autozone and pick up a K&N filter cleaning kit. This may help some.</FONT>

3.) on dyno day i had 5 gallons of 4 month old 87 octane gas, we couldnt find a way to get the crap out so i just added 6 gallons of 109 octane unleaded to make up the difference, could the gas just be crap??? (i got straight fresh 92 now its all we got 'round here, and i run an octane booster at every fillup just for re-assurance)

<FONT COLOR="red">Save your money on the octane booster, it does nothing. Was the car tuned on and for the mixture of 87 and 104? Higher octane gas allows you to run a more aggressive timing map. If you went to a lower octane gas than what the map is tuned for, you may be detonating like whoa (although I think your tuner is smarter than that).</FONT>

issue 2 not as bad but i just want to figure it out:
when at full throttle im running at 10 on my aem a/f gauge?

<FONT COLOR="red">I don't know what the lower bound of the AEM gauge is, but you may be running really really rich which robs power. </FONT>

problems may include
1.) i run a apexi ws2 exhaust (restrictive as hell with boost), and i tuned with my e-cutout open and thats 2.5" downpipe, could the car be running rich just because it thinks its making more power than it really is??

<FONT COLOR="red">3" would help</FONT>

2.) i removed the thermostat to push coolant through my car cold at idle to check for a leak (which i found ), is the thermo somehow hooked to the ecu and my car thinks its still in cold mode?

<FONT COLOR="red">The car knows what temp the coolant is at. IAT is also read. The car has tables that add fuel depending on what it reads from those sensors and more. </FONT>

3.) did i just get a bad tune? i highly doubt this because LJ is super reputable around MN, my car got off his dyno and he slapped on a stock bottom end supra to 685rwhp, kinda made me jealous lol.

<FONT COLOR="red"> Might not have been a 'bad' tune, but it sounds like you were tuned on a higher octane gas. he may have been REALLY conservative on the tune since he knew you would be on lower octance gas on the street.

One thing you left out is what fuel mani your using? I would either talk to your tuner or post your map on here for others to look over. There is no way to tell if its a bad tune without looking at the map. </FONT>

issue 3:
my car has MAJOR turbo lag between shifts, its like 2 seconds of bog how is this possible with a bb 50 trim turbo???? not to mention i dont hit the start of my power curve until around 4600, on a 50 bb trim? is that normal?

<FONT COLOR="red"> Have you checked for exhaust leaks? </FONT>

maybe its-
1.) i dont have any idea besides my 2" charge piping going from teh turbo to the hot side of intercooler...
2.) maybe my air filter setup?

<FONT COLOR="red">Take the filter off on the dyno next time, or go make one pull on the road with no filter (NOTE: do this at your own risk. I'm not responsible if you mess your turbo up. I know many people run no filter at the track with no problems, but there is always the chance.)


Also please give an exact list of your setup.</FONT>

big-cat

1. get bigger exhaust
2. get an oem distributor and ask your tuner what he wants the timing set at
3. dont ever use any octane lower than 90+ with a boosted d16 for reliability reasons
4. you have anything done to the head?

your exhaust and dizzy are the things that are killing you the most. the gas seemed kind of weird but you need a bigger exhaust asap and an oem dizzy. then with whatever octane you want 92 or higher go back and get it retuned and up the boost some if you injectors are good for it.

p.s. what is your tuner using to tune with?

didder

tuning with hondata s300, another issue we were having was the car was running kinda hot, i know that kills performance, i fixed that issue as well, hoping that after fixing these i can push 325+

head is fully built skunk2 cam, ksm valves / springs / retainers, 62mm tb, venom intake, 3 angle p&p, deburred etc... blocks running 9:1 wisecos and eagle rods.

i run the 2.5" cutout when racing / at the track, and that should be good up to about 350whp i hear... the ws2 is my cruising exhaust so i dont shoot myself from all the noise a 3" exhaust makes.

im going to run a 45,000volt nology ext coil and a pro fire icm in the ebay dizzy, that "should" clear that problem up.

my dyno sheets on this page https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2386203 about 6 replys down, sov posted it because i havent figured this forum out yet lol.

and the tuner tuned it as he normally would on 92 octane, built d's rock 300+whp
on pump gas all the time


and good replies thanks for the advice.. ill keep looking into it until the cars retuned.

forced00si

check for boost leaks

didder

no leaks, car holds 16psi all day long

forced00si

your wastegate will keep it there. you don't have to have low boost pressure to have a boost leak. I was running 21psi with some severe leaks.

justinCO

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by didder &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">no leaks, car holds 16psi all day long </TD></TR></TABLE>

If you didn't already, pressure test the piping system from the turbo inlet. I thought my car was fine and had no boost leaks but when I pressure tested it, I had 4 pinhole leaks on piping welds, leak at bov, leak at iat sensor, leak at intercooler couple

Civicman86

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by justinCO &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

If you didn't already, pressure test the piping system from the turbo inlet. I thought my car was fine and had no boost leaks but when I pressure tested it, I had 4 pinhole leaks on piping welds, leak at bov, leak at iat sensor, leak at intercooler couple </TD></TR></TABLE>

what is the best/easiest way to test this? I don't think I have any leaks, but I would like to check if possible.

Didder: How hot was the car running, just curious? What temps are you at now that its fixed.

And yes turbo d's rock

big-cat

stock dizzy I am telling you they work the best. you are really getting killed on your exhaust and I dont know why you are not making more power with higher boost. you know another tuner around there just to see what he thinks to get a second view on things?

didder

cars running like a turd havent been driving it to much until i get a street tune on it, partials are screwed up but wot is fine.

its getting a white gunk under my oil cap and my catch can is filling up with water and the white gunk crap

i think its headgasket issues, we cant seem to get the coolant in my radiator to stop bubbling, somehow, somewhere there is air getting into my coolant system, were thinking its coming through the headgasket at wot, i only tighted the arp headstuds to 54ft lbs (what the box says), my tuner says they torque all hondas down to 60ft lbs does that sound correct? maybe im getting a mild case of head lift?


oh and btw, ill run the stock dizzy before i jump back on the dyno for bigger numbers...

why is an open 2.5" downpipe killing me for numbers? j/c

and now that you say it, im going to have to check for leaks, just because i have one ebay thing on my car, and its my piping / clamps / couplars / intercooler... i would actually be SHOCKED if i was boost leak free...

thanks for the advice keep it coming

Civicman86

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by didder &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">cars running like a turd havent been driving it to much until i get a street tune on it, partials are screwed up but wot is fine.

its getting a white gunk under my oil cap and my catch can is filling up with water and the white gunk crap

i think its headgasket issues, we cant seem to get the coolant in my radiator to stop bubbling, somehow, somewhere there is air getting into my coolant system, were thinking its coming through the headgasket at wot, i only tighted the arp headstuds to 54ft lbs (what the box says), my tuner says they torque all hondas down to 60ft lbs does that sound correct? maybe im getting a mild case of head lift? </TD></TR></TABLE>

You are correct, either head gasket is blown or head is lifting. This is usually due to timing maps that are to aggressive. I torqued my ARP's to 54, have not had a issue since (*knock on wood*)


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by didder &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
why is an open 2.5" downpipe killing me for numbers? j/c </TD></TR></TABLE>

2.5 is just a small exhaust to make 'big' power on. It can't expless the amount of exhaust needed.

maddog20

I would put you thermostat back in...

If you don't the coolant will not stay in the radiator long enough to cool. Your actually making cooling system less efficient.

If your car runs hot it's most likely because of a lack of airflow to the radiator due to your intercooler or a undersized radiator.

try looking at your wastegate. Pull it apart check for damaged parts like a ripped diaphragm.


fix issues then return to tuner

maddog20

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Civicman86 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You are correct, either head gasket is blown or head is lifting. This is usually due to timing maps that are to aggressive. I torqued my ARP's to 54, have not had a issue since (*knock on wood*)

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Replace the HG and check the timing maps...is your engine a Y8 or a Z6?

I will go through a couple heat cycles then retorque the headstuds after replacing the HG. But if you don't correct the timing maps you'll changing gaskets every other oil change.




Modified by maddog20 at 2:18 PM 9/21/2008

didder

ill put the thermostat back in asap, thats why im overheating only under high boost and not cooling as efficiantly thx!

what could be causing the radiator to never stop bubbling? i open up the cap and it just keeps letting out bubbles at idle, it seems like theres air leaking into the system from somewhere? or is it just because the water is boiling inside and causing the issue?? (im currently running just water because the coolant just gets to expensive when playing with the coolant system as much as i do.)

its a z6 head y8 block.

thanks again everybody, getting closer.


Modified by didder at 11:07 AM 9/21/2008

maddog20

does it bubble even when you havent gone into boost?

does the plugs look really clean? like brand new clean? Also does your coolant overflow fill-up or spill over?

didder

its goes into the overflow only at wot when it heats up, at idle and normal driving conditions its right at 180. btw, i have a mishimoto radiator and fan and coolant lines.

i mean, when i re fill it up after draining it to check, the air bubbles never come out, it just keeps pooping out air bubbles.

im praying its headlift and not headgasket

Civicman86

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by didder &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">its goes into the overflow only at wot when it heats up, at idle and normal driving conditions its right at 180. btw, i have a mishimoto radiator and fan and coolant lines.

i mean, when i re fill it up after draining it to check, the air bubbles never come out, it just keeps pooping out air bubbles.

im praying its headlift and not headgasket </TD></TR></TABLE>

And you have properly bled the system correct? (i.e. start car cold, open radiator cap, turn heat on full blast, and letting all the air bleed out until the fan comes on? Also if you squeeze the upper rad. hose with the rad. cap off, it helps 'burp' the system faster.)

I'm thinking the head is lifting and constantly putting air into the coolant system. Usually though the overflow will fill up and usually overflow if this is the case (don't ask me how I know that ).


Modified by Civicman86 at 2:57 PM 9/21/2008

maddog20

does it fill all the way to the top? like on the verge of spilling out?

if you lifted the head you'll have to replace the gasket

didder

my oil is not milky, its actually perfect, wouldnt it be milky if my HG was shot?

it actualy comes out the top of the overflow.

maddog20

because the coolant is getting pushed out. does the coolant have black specs in it?

your lifting the head and pressurizing the water jackets. You'll have to replace the HG. I recommend a OEM gasket and use coppery spray and pull some timing.

What type of HG are you using?

Civicman86

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by didder &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my oil is not milky, its actually perfect, wouldnt it be milky if my HG was shot?

it actualy comes out the top of the overflow.</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by didder &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">its getting a white gunk under my oil cap and my catch can is filling up with water and the white gunk crap</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm confused

didder

we think the stuff under the valve cover is oil that just got to hot and frothy.

the coolant is just water right now, but its a little miscolored, no chunks in it at all, just looks like its been running through not perfectly clean coolant lines...

using a d16y8 triple layer head gasket.

sorry if i seem stubborn, i just want to think of every option, head gasket replace is my last resort

big-cat

yeah sounds like the hg is going to have to be replaced but how reputable is your tuner? its not that bad to replace the head gasket. If I were you I would put antifreeze in instead of water, see if it makes a difference its like what 15$. good luck to you.